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11 Dec 2008 - 13:458542
Expo attendee’s behavior and conduct/issues debate ( The Good the Bad and the Ugly)
-For those who have been reading the other topics on the board we seemed to gotten off onto a tangent about peoples conduct at the Expo and the Organizers seemly lacked attitude towards it. This is NOT a lets bash the Expo thread so please keep your comments nice.


As we, all know the London MCM Expo is the King of Anime, ScFi and Movie events in the London Metro area. By their estimates, they average about 20-25k attendees flowing in and out of their doors at each event, ranging in age from 5-65.

While the London expo is very good at attracting a decent crowd with a start-studded line up each time, there is always room for improvement. They have gotten better at handling the crowds and providing the space and staffing needed to put on the event. However, the behavior of some of their attendees leaves a lot to be desired. A quick read of the other thread in the forums and you will understand what I am talking about.

It has been said by some, “The expo is only about making money”. As a person of the media, I will not believe that until I hear it from the organizers directly. However, there is a lot of info out there to suggest this is true.

I feel the Expo is an excellent event for London personally; however they have to work on a better controlling the people that go to this event. I am not saying they should be crazy police and clamp down on each and every free hug sign and hyperactive kid. However, they should have some simple rules of conduct to abide by for attendees.

I feel if they did this, while haveing staffer politely and tactfully enforce the rules. A lot of the rowdy behavior of some of the attendees would stop if not go away. It may be only a matter of time before another large Expo style events moves into London and competes with the Expo. One could speculate if the expo does nothing they risk hurting their public image.

I have a lot of experience with this sort of thing since I am a veteran of many Conventions. I have staffed many events and done security-consulting work for a few. For more info please read my profile.

I gladly welcome any comments from the event organizers here or via PM to address these issues.

As always let’s have an good clean topic.

Cheers


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Last edited by nadesico81 (11 Dec 2008 - 16:19)
11 Dec 2008 - 14:338548
What interests me, is that you see people acting like this at expos far more then you do at conventions.

I know you may always get someone who can be a bit of a pain at conventions, but when you compare it to the amount of people playing up at expos, its so tame.

I think while the expos do have rules and are generally well-watched over. There isnt really anything in place that comes to dealing with people that cause trouble. You may get lucky and find someone who will have them dealt with.
Like GunstarVixen mentioned from one of her experiences, she was able to speak with someone who had it dealt with quickly, but that may have been chance, alot of people probably have a hard time finding someone who is able to deal with the problem, especially when the show is as crowded as it is.

Even still, it would be good if some rules could be implemented to help things go a little more smoothly and safely, or at least something to stop some things going on inside the expo hall.
I know they'd have trouble stopping whatever goes on outside the expo itself, but thing could be done to better help those who are trying to do things normally inside while moving around the stalls.


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11 Dec 2008 - 16:138555
Once more I agree with you.

This is from a convention report from the states. As I have said before the Expo is not the only event that has this problem. The reviwer makes a few good points here.


-From PatrickD, www.AnimeCons.com Webmaster

Event Report: Another Anime Convention 2007
Location: Nashua, New Hampshire USA

"Looking back at the weekend, the attendees of Another Anime Convention seemed to be of a younger average age than I recall seeing at any of the other conventions I've attended in the past year. While it's good to see kids having a good time, having so many of them running through crowded hallways, yelling and squealing at each other, and even making out in public tends to make the older, more mature attendees feel out of place and ultimately drives them away.

Seeing the abhorrent behavior of some of these young attendees makes me feel like I'm the old neighbor shouting "You kids! Get off my lawn!" when I have to tell them to calm down, take it outside, turn their music down, etc... This would probably be less of a problem if the convention had security and staff who were more visible. Two kids are going to be much less likely to be making out in a hallway if they see a staff member nearby and they know they'll be told to stop, possibly at the risk of being removed from the convention. Older attendees and guests shouldn't be the ones who have to tell attendees to behave. "

The whole report can be read here: http://www.animecons.com/reports/article.shtml/564


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Last edited by nadesico81 (11 Dec 2008 - 16:14)
11 Dec 2008 - 18:028562
I liked the expo when it first started up and was quite small in comparison to what it is nowadays.

I don't deal well with big crowds of strangers, but I don't like missing out expo's just because most of the snot nosed kids who go there don't understand the concept of personal space. I go to expo to meet up with friends I hardly ever see, occasionally to make new ones (if i find my non-existent balls and socialise), not to get glomped by every passer by younger than the age of 17 (I find that older teens avoid grumpy looking cosplayers.)

I can put up with going inside the expo and getting pushed a long with a crowd, if i breathe deeply enough that is, but what I can't even begin to tolerate is when people just come up and hug or glomp you. I don't give a crap if they are holding a 'free glomp' sign, i don't read them and I certainly don't say yes, go ahead, invade my personal space. This year at expo I got separated from my friends and brother because of some strange crowd surge inside, so I quickly made my way outside where I could calm down, only to get glomped by some greasy kid who nearly ripped part of my dress off by landing on the skirt and going 'It's Sasuke in a dress!'. After much hyperventilating one of my other friends rescued me and shooed me outside - but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one at an expo who doesn't want that kind of contact with a complete stranger!


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11 Dec 2008 - 19:028569
Hey there. As someone who has been working with Expo from the very beginning of it's anime/manga slant, I can say that the Expo is run by a pair of very hardworking guys who have other jobs. Please don't assume it isn't a labour of love for them. The costs associated with hiring the ExCel centre are pretty massive, but thankfully their work is paying off and they're making their money back ^^

Last expo was almost 30,000 attendees ^^

And therein lies a problem - how much staff do you need to control 30,000 people?! O_O the mind boggles.

There are guidelines for behaviour outlined in the Expo forums, but it would probably be useful to have such info printed on the back of tickets or clearly displayed online or emailed to you when you purchase a ticket online. That way it can be waved in front of offenders' faces before they are thrown out XD

More visible staff, possibly with a high-vis lanyard or badge could help.


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Last edited by sonia_leong (11 Dec 2008 - 19:04)
11 Dec 2008 - 19:078572
Quote sonia_leong:
Hey there. As someone who has been working with Expo from the very beginning of it's anime/manga slant, I can say that the Expo is run by a pair of very hardworking guys who have other jobs. Please don't assume it isn't a labour of love for them. The costs associated with hiring the ExCel centre are pretty massive, but thankfully their work is paying off and they're making their money back ^^

Last expo was almost 30,000 attendees ^^

And therein lies a problem - how much staff do you need to control 30,000 people?! O_O the mind boggles.

There are guidelines for behaviour outlined in the Expo forums, but it would probably be useful to have such info printed on the back of tickets or clearly displayed online or emailed to you when you purchase a ticket online.

More visible staff, possibly with a high-vis lanyard or badge could help.


Agreed that would be a very nice start and improve the overall feel of the Expo.

There are conventions that control 30,000 people and do it well ie Comiket. If you have some time I would be happy to discus this with you in a PM or in person.

If needed I would be happy to work with the Expo on this matter.


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11 Dec 2008 - 19:408574
I think Expo tends to have quite enough to deal with as it is - dealing with 30,000 people is no mean feat - and I think Comiket is a bit of an unfair example to compare it, I think that's been running for almost 30+ years or something! So its had plenty of time to deal with matters of this nature and so on, and I'm sure it still hasn't quite ironed out all the wrinkles - I don't know though as I've never been there. Also Comiket is in Japan, and I think its fair to suggest that behaviour around conventions and the like do vary from country to country, Japan is well-known for its respectful culture and so on

Also, again, if you're so concerned about the state of Expo, I must say you should simply go out there and suggest it yourself. If people aren't happy about something yet don't say anything outloud nothing is going to change. Muttering and complaining about it on forums isn't likely to do much in the long run, so I say if people want there to be a better way with dealing with 30,000 peple arriving at Expo, bring it up with the staff making it, email them and whatnot, it can't hurt. ^^

THough, I think the last expo had 20-25,000 people going, and still 30,000 is a rather big jump! ^^; Also cos Expo is an open event it is rather difficult I'm sure to judge just how many people are going to attend, so it must be difficult to judge staff levels for that alone. Then there's also the matter of Expo being held in a joint venue don't forget, there are normally plenty of other conventions going on at the same time! I think Expo is able to control and handle much more in its particular section of the Excel centre compared to the open area where it is free reign over all.

I don't know the details of this, but is the hall-area with all the food areas and such looked over by Expo and other Convention staff (ie. the Peace and Unity staff during October?) or is it patrolled by Excel Centre security? I'm sure the whole matter gets a little messy on this aspect and can be actually quite difficult to deal with a certain attendee's behaviour if they're technically not in the area dedicated for said convention. ^^;


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11 Dec 2008 - 20:198576
One thing: London Expo isn't a convention, it's an exposition. Essentially a big exhibitors room.

People complain that it doesn't cater to the fans, but it was never started to be so Anime-centric.
People complain that they never have anything new, but each time there are new shows, panels and features, they just don't advertise very well what will be happening.

If people think they should have more staff 'controlling' or 'managing' the crowds better than I would love to see someone offer to foot the bill.
Because Expo staff don't get paid.


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11 Dec 2008 - 20:258577
Quote firedaemon:


If people think they should have more staff 'controlling' or 'managing' the crowds better than I would love to see someone offer to foot the bill.
Because Expo staff don't get paid.



99.9% of Anime, ScFi, etc etc Convention staff the world over don't get paid myself included. Its not an issue of controlling the crowd as per my first post. They control the crowd quite well in my opinion.

The issue here is behavior of the attendee's at the event.


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Last edited by nadesico81 (11 Dec 2008 - 20:40)
11 Dec 2008 - 20:278578
Quote nadesico81:
Quote firedaemon:


If people think they should have more staff 'controlling' or 'managing' the crowds better than I would love to see someone offer to foot the bill.
Because Expo staff don't get paid.



99.9% of Anime, ScFi, etc etc Convention staff the world over don't get paid. Its not an issue of controlling the crowd as per my first post. They control the crowd quite well in my opinion.

The issue here is behavior of the attendee's at the event.


"however they have to work on a better controlling the people that go to this event. I am not saying they should be crazy police and clamp down on each and every free hug sign and hyperactive kid. However, they should have some simple rules of conduct to abide by for attendees."


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11 Dec 2008 - 20:438579
If your going to quote my posts please be sure to use the full context of my post. You seem to conveniently leave out key phrases and parts.

If you take the time to fully read my first point you will understand the issue better.

-The full context from my first post-

"I feel the Expo is an excellent event for London personally; however they have to work on a better controlling the people that go to this event. I am not saying they should be crazy police and clamp down on each and every free hug sign and hyperactive kid. However, they should have some simple rules of conduct to abide by for attendees.

I feel if they did this, while haveing staffer politely and tactfully enforce the rules. A lot of the rowdy behavior of some of the attendees would stop if not go away. It may be only a matter of time before another large Expo style events moves into London and competes with the Expo. One could speculate if the expo does nothing they risk hurting their public image."


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Last edited by nadesico81 (11 Dec 2008 - 20:47)
11 Dec 2008 - 21:108581
Quote firedaemon:
attemps at having a dicussion
It is not worth trying to have a discussion with someone who won't see anything other than their own opinion.

IT IS NOT WORTH IT, RUN JODIE RUN.


11 Dec 2008 - 21:138582
Jodie, this was a friendly community, this aint worth it

Dont decend to this poster's level of aggro!


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11 Dec 2008 - 21:298585
Quote 1000014:
Jodie, this was a friendly community, this aint worth it

Dont decend to this poster's level of aggro!


It's ok, I'm not all together that bothered.

However,
@nadesico81: I fail to see how the extra paragraph further contextualises your point. If anything it reinforces that I was not making an idle remark that at least one person in this thread has mentioned staff having more control over the crowds.
If you are going to raise an issue with people leaving out key points in a discussion then I would mention your own ignoring of several comments on previous posts, or appearing to have placed your own personal experience above that of others.
I am sorry if you feel I have misjudged you, however, I do not not feel your posts to be very proactive.

If a moderator feels the desire to remove this post, then by all means do. I will however, be discontinuing posting any comments or opinions on any behavior based topics for the time being, so if anyone wants to say something to me specifically, you'll have to PM me


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Last edited by firedaemon (11 Dec 2008 - 21:31)
11 Dec 2008 - 21:328586
Quote firedaemon:
Quote 1000014:
Jodie, this was a friendly community, this aint worth it

Dont decend to this poster's level of aggro!


It's ok, I'm not all together that bothered.

However,
@nadesico81: I fail to see how the extra paragraph further contextualises your point. If anything it reinforces that I was not making an idle remark that at least one person in this thread has mentioned staff having more control over the crowds.
If you are going to raise an issue with people leaving out key points in a discussion then I would mention your own ignoring of several comments on previous posts, or appearing to have placed your own personal experience above that of others.
I am sorry if you feel I have misjudged you, however, I do not not feel your posts to be very proactive.

If a moderator feels the desire to remove this post, then by all means do. I will however, be discontinuing posting any comments or opinions on any behavior based topics for the time being, so if anyone wants to say something to me specifically, you'll have to PM
me


As in any debate on many topics people misunderstand others views. That's a way of life yet it does make things interesting at times.

However it is hard to respond to each and every post around the clock. I do not put my experiences above that of others.

In addition you did start the topic about Expo Behavior so I don't really understand where your going with this. Your first topic is what got me thinking about this.

If you want to discus this further PM me and I will be happy to talk to you.

Its not wise to let this thread descend into a flame match over what is suppose to be clean debate.


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Last edited by nadesico81 (11 Dec 2008 - 22:01)
11 Dec 2008 - 22:098591
This is fine. Although I have noticed James that you do take a bit of an "I've seen it all, so I know better than you attitude." I've met you a few times IRL and worked with you last expo so I know you're not like that in person. I think it's just how you're coming across on the forums.

Anyway, I don't think there was any aggro, but Firedaemon was right, you did mention it originally.

Anyway, on from that.

I spent a lot of time liasing between the organisers and the members of the Expo community in my role as moderator. I knew a lot of things going on behind the scenes etc. and I won't go into a majority of it as that's not professional.

I will say, however and have made this clear in posts that have since been deleted on the expo forums that before I stepped down (and believe me, I did so in protest and told people such) that they were acting poorly towards fans.

If we get into a discussion about that, this is fine. But I must admit I'm confused as to the entire point of this topic. The expo has been mentioned, but the title is about the attendees rather than how it is run.

The main problem with expo compared to other conventions is that they are catering to different audiences. The cosplay community (which we all are) are generally not catered for (other than the masquerade) despite the fact that cosplayers make up most of their new market. It's as though the expo has been evolving, but their policies have not.


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11 Dec 2008 - 22:478594
Quote sjbonnar:
This is fine. Although I have noticed James that you do take a bit of an "I've seen it all, so I know better than you attitude." I've met you a few times IRL and worked with you last expo so I know you're not like that in person. I think it's just how you're coming across on the forums.

Anyway, I don't think there was any aggro, but Firedaemon was right, you did mention it originally.


Thanks for the good info sjbonnar. In response to Firedaemon I sent a Official Apology PM regarding this thread.

Its not my intent to get people mad and or Ped off. However many people do feel strongly about this issue in more way then one.


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12 Dec 2008 - 00:268605
Quote firedaemon:
One thing: London Expo isn't a convention, it's an exposition. Essentially a big exhibitors room.


I love you just for that xD

I love expo for what it is. Simple, large and although not perfect, doing the best it can. It simply CANNOT stop some minor yet very annoying people doing what they will, there are too many people and simply not enough volunteers!



Last edited by stripey_dani (12 Dec 2008 - 00:37)
12 Dec 2008 - 00:278606
Quote nadesico81:
Quote sjbonnar:
This is fine. Although I have noticed James that you do take a bit of an "I've seen it all, so I know better than you attitude." I've met you a few times IRL and worked with you last expo so I know you're not like that in person. I think it's just how you're coming across on the forums.

Anyway, I don't think there was any aggro, but Firedaemon was right, you did mention it originally.


Thanks for the good info sjbonnar. In response to Firedaemon I sent a Official Apology PM regarding this thread.

Its not my intent to get people mad and or Ped off. However many people do feel strongly about this issue in more way then one.


Quite understandable and that's why I wanted to point it out to you as I know that's not your intention, it's just the way you're coming across online.

Anyway, if we do go into organisation of expos, it could be interesting LOL


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12 Dec 2008 - 11:048625
This may have already been said but have some form of Code of Conduct printed as part of the program guide might be a good. Rather than have it as a separate sheet or displayed in one place, just have it in the one thing everyone should be given as they enter.

From being on the Expo forums, I know the organisers are aware of the issues. The number of anti-free hugs post severely outnumber the ones that are for them. They seem to be planning some form code that would be given to people. Of course how well this will be implemented is anyone's guess at this point. However they seem to want to have some form of compromise so that everyone is happy.

The thing about Expo is that it is a huge public event. Because pretty much anyone can attend, idiots will show up. The organises are still not used to the levels of attendance they have been getting and it could take some time for some kind of system to be sorted.


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16 Dec 2008 - 15:178761
Quote Ice-climber:
This may have already been said but have some form of Code of Conduct printed as part of the program guide might be a good. Rather than have it as a separate sheet or displayed in one place, just have it in the one thing everyone should be given as they enter.

From being on the Expo forums, I know the organisers are aware of the issues. The number of anti-free hugs post severely outnumber the ones that are for them. They seem to be planning some form code that would be given to people. Of course how well this will be implemented is anyone's guess at this point. However they seem to want to have some form of compromise so that everyone is happy.

The thing about Expo is that it is a huge public event. Because pretty much anyone can attend, idiots will show up. The organises are still not used to the levels of attendance they have been getting and it could take some time for some kind of system to be sorted.


It is good that they are understanding and starting to address this issue.

Perhaps they could post a section on their web site or have staff hand out flyers with the code of conduct to people coming into the next expo? Maybe they could print a short version of it on the back of their tickets.

All these are options and it may take several Expos for a reliable system to be worked out.

Quote sjbonnar:


Anyway, if we do go into organisation of expos, it could be interesting LOL


Perhaps that’s best left out of here since it seems to be a personal issue. I don’t believe the expos sole purpose is to take all our money as some have implied.


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Last edited by nadesico81 (16 Dec 2008 - 15:20)
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