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31 May 2011 - 00:4158010
They did not tell me they were going to put it in the newspaper, they didnt even tell me they were from daily star. They told me they were from big brother afterwards. I dont see how they had the right to give the photo to a newspaper, without telling me or warning me!? Its all over the shops as well. Thats too much. I've tried complaining to the daily star but I dont see how that would work! Oh yeah and the man asked me who I was dressed as and I told him. He wrote it down on his notepad. Someone also told me I can get publishing right/fees?



Last edited by Rain (31 May 2011 - 00:53)
31 May 2011 - 00:5958011
Quote Squee:
Here is the facebook group with some links if you want to complain ayone ^^

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=206311139405250

I myself am horrified the made me sound like such a n00b! Diddnt say those words qwuite like that-realy twisted them around! I derectly said that big brother was car crash tv, not that Id be! DX
Not sure what Im doin' about this myself, but I'm not pleased... And you realy dont wanna annoy a "joker-like harlequin" 0.o



By complain, I mean to the right people


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31 May 2011 - 01:0558012
Quote Rain:
They did not tell me they were going to put it in the newspaper, they didnt even tell me they were from daily star. They told me they were from big brother afterwards. I dont see how they had the right to give the photo to a newspaper, without telling me or warning me!? Its all over the shops as well. Thats too much. I've tried complaining to the daily star but I dont see how that would work! Oh yeah and the man asked me who I was dressed as and I told him. He wrote it down on his notepad. Someone also told me I can get publishing right/fees?


Im not sure yet what I can or will do about it, but it just makes me feel sick to read suck mean spirited comments
You were the zombie Panty, right? I *Loved* your coustume! ^-^


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31 May 2011 - 01:0958013
Quote Junta:
Quote Ice-climber:

To be far man this doesn't really have anything to do with them. All they did was give a press pass to someone for the reasons they were told (which were probably vague at best).


Actually I'm pretty sure they were aware of what was being planned; one of the two was quoted regarding BB turning up before the event.

So I'm perfectly happy for others to disagree with my perception of it, but I just choose to avoid the event in question to avoid drama/grief and Expo seems to be the bigger source of it on the UK event circuit


I -for one- diddnt say what they'v got up on their website
It wount stop me goin' to expo, but talkin' to interviewers who dont say where they'r from -.-


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31 May 2011 - 01:3158015
I'm mostly disgusted by the fact that they seem to think that we dressed up for them - to attempt to compete to get onto the show.
I can't even describe how mad this makes me. The insults like "oddballs" doesn't even annoy, mainly 'cause they've been so.. Urgh
Such arrogance :/

And I wasn't even at expo this time round.


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31 May 2011 - 01:5458017
'Swarms of comic nuts turned out in fancy dress to compete for a place.'
'And they were openly battling each other for a chance to make themselves famous when the show returns in August. '

No.


Just no :l

That makes me rage so damn much
It's damn disgusting they've published your photo like that without your consent.


31 May 2011 - 02:3058018
Post on here tonight to get your comment sent to endermol

http://www.bigbrothersite.co.uk/2011/05/25/expo-fans-outrage-at-big-brother/comment-page-1/#comment-803


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31 May 2011 - 04:0858019
Quote Rain:
They did not tell me they were going to put it in the newspaper, they didnt even tell me they were from daily star. They told me they were from big brother afterwards. I dont see how they had the right to give the photo to a newspaper, without telling me or warning me!? Its all over the shops as well. Thats too much. I've tried complaining to the daily star but I dont see how that would work! Oh yeah and the man asked me who I was dressed as and I told him. He wrote it down on his notepad. Someone also told me I can get publishing right/fees?


Doesn't really matter.
They can take your photo and publish it anyway, without your permission.

The onus is on you to go and request it be taken down [or republished, but again you have no rights to the photo so it is not up to you, it is only up to the goodwill of either the copyright holder or the publisher], but aside from that, you cannot do much else.

In other countries, there is occasionally recourse, and alot of suing ensues...
But this is the UK and you have no case, even less so since you gave your permission for a photo to be taken with no regard for who it is taking your picture, and for what purpose.

Occasionally it can be done correctly, whereby they tell you what they are doing, and what its for, and they ask for you to sign what is basically a consent form to publish/broadcast you. But there isnt a legal obligation to do so, its just whether someone is being upfront and decent about it.

Leadmill hit the nail on the head in his post.

There is nothing you can do, and it sounds like most advice you have been given is utter rubbish.

In summary, you were in cosplay, in public, you are fully aware that any person out there, in public can and will take a photo of you, whether you like it or not, yet you choose to dress up as you did on that day, and be where you did that day.
The event you attended was not a private one.
The photo that was used, was taken in public. It isnt commercial, and it wasnt in private.

Editorial photos are taken and published in the press, and those who appear in the photos have no legal recourse or rights or rights to request fees or permission, and no release or contracts are required to sign.

In simpler terms, does Kate Moss get paid or publishing control every time she is snapped walking down the street? Does Joe Bloggs, sat in the crowd at a recent football match get paid for his appearance in a photo? Do the revellers in the street afterwards get paid for their appearance in a newspaper photo or on the evening tv news?
Answer to all these is no.

I used to shoot for the press so i know what i could or couldnt shoot.

Basically, forget about it. Everyone else will, eventually.


31 May 2011 - 05:1658022
if it's any consolation, your cosplay is awesome at least? ;_;


31 May 2011 - 09:4058025
The whole idiocy of people over this is really making angry.

The whole talk of boycotts and apologies is really stupid. I don't get what the expect of MCM. They seem to think that they took money for a press pass. That isn't how it works.


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31 May 2011 - 10:1458029
i also had a photo taken of me by big brother when i wasn't aware but when they told me i asked them to delete it as i didn't want no part in what they were doing, i think it is wrong for them to be putting up pictures without permission and ridiculing us when they don't even know the full truth of why we do it. I'm sorry to hear that they used your picture perhaps if you went to their site and said it was you and would like them to delete it they may do it. x


31 May 2011 - 10:4958033
I'm with Ice-climber on this, people's reaction to all of it is beyond embarrassing.

The person in the photo should have only needed to contact whoever made the report, no need to bring more negative attention to it by posting it on a public forum let alone making facebook groups over it.

People are going to presume all cosplayers and those involved with this hobby hold the same views as those who have retaliated in the way they did.


31 May 2011 - 11:0158034
markthetog pretty much has it laid out flat, the only ones at any fault here are the DS journalists, Expo aren't in the firing line, and are totally unrelated; boycotting them for this is ridiculous.

They're a national newspaper, they eat press passes for breakfast, how would you expect a massive media event like Expo, that lives and breathes off advertising to the masses, to start turning down actual newspapers? It's easy to say they're a tabloid rag, but sadly they do have a huge readership and any publicity is good publicity in some respect..

Even we here at CosplayIsland can get a press pass or two to attend, there were other newspapers and magazines and even TV documentary staff present, as well as other media. It's easy to point rage at the resulting article, but don't think it's easy to see from a press application that their final goal is to write a mock story. Their aim on paper would be simply to give coverage of Expo itself, which they're hardly going to turn down. If they were more upfront they may have even mentioned the BB thing in advance, but from a business perspective that's all the more reason to let them in.. BB isn't exactly a niche low-viewer-ratings show, much as we wish it were

Taken from another angle, if they were to start turning press away in advance based on that, how would you feel about hearing that press weren't allowed to cover a different, very contraversal event unless they promised to only say positive things about the group running it?

The only ones at fault here are the journalists involved, and possibly whatever drama-crunching team are behind giving those journalists the direction to take to get the ultimate rage going

Press should have clear ID visable at all times, cameras emblazoned with their logo, business cards given out, clear direction given on what it will be used for or at least who they are, and consent forms signed.. but as none of these are legal requirements, all the good companies will do the above, the less scrupulous will not..

Even I make sure I've got the sprocketed lemon slice on show at all times, not because I lurves the recognition, but so it's clear who I am, why I'm taking your photo, and that I'm not going to do anything evil with it, or at least if I do you know exactly who it was who took it and can later have at my kneecaps with a tire iron in a dark alleyway.

All Expo can really do is make press passes a bit more visable from a distance, this time they did sort of blend in with other passes, but at least they did have to be on show at all times, just like wristbands.


Right, all that said, yeah the article is a train wreck, I don't think it's as bad as the Telegraph one which is supposedly a more respectable newspaper but did a far more through job of being convincing that we're all weirdos, while this reads like anything else in the daily star I don't doubt, however, that some people really were leaping at the chance so why they didn't use their image instead is beyond comprehension.. Unless, which can happen, the photos were just dumped on a metaphorical desk and someone else picked one out of the pile for the article..

While Expo is a private event on private property, their photo policy of "you can have your photo taken, deal with it" has been clear for years, it avoids so much legal trouble for themselves as well as the hundreds of photographers like myself that removing it would be far less beneficial. There's not much recourse but to complain directly to the DS and pray they have a heart somewhere in there :/

There's also the hope that now they have their trite biased story they won't ever bother coming back?

Okay and now I've vented XD We are thinking of putting together a quick sticky guide of how to deal with being approached at events, how to spot press badges, how to be wary of who you're actually talking to, but hopefully to not put everyone on edge talking to the average photographer or uni student doing a cosplay themed project.. Will get on with that when photos are done!

Suggestions welcome, 'course.


31 May 2011 - 12:0258037
Hey Nert would mind if I quoted you on the Expo forum? The people in this topic don't seem to understand:
http://www.mcmexpogroup.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=360&t=16876

Edit:
Never mind, I just linked to this thread instead.


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Last edited by Ice-climber (31 May 2011 - 12:26)
31 May 2011 - 12:4958045
My wife runs a photo studio so I asked some questions, a picture taken for use in some sort large print media needs the person having their photo to sign a consent form telling them what the photo can be used for, word of mouth doesn't count.

Hence why cosplay fever make you fill in that form for every photo shoot.

So you can request them to remove the photo.


31 May 2011 - 13:4958047
If its commercial or an endorsement, then a release form is required.

Cosplay Fever require the release as the person in the photo is effectively modelling for them, so it becomes an official work/interaction between, technically, a model and a photographer, and subsequently published. It is not a news editorial nor is it a news article though.
The release basically covers their arse should the model (or anyone else) decide to change their mind or they get arsey about it.

In 'editorial usage' a release is not required.
You can be nice about it, it can possibly cover your arse, but you can get away without it too.

As Nert says:
Quote:
Unless...the photos were just dumped on a metaphorical desk and someone else picked one out of the pile for the article..

This is very possible - because in the past i can suggest but i certainly did not have control over what picture gets used in an article - and so the whole idea that the photo was taken, particularly of this cosplayer, for nefarious purposes is rubbish too.

But you have to remember that a release is not a legal requirement, it simply holds up better in court if you have one. If you dont, then it is usually verbal and that is only worth the paper it is written on...



Last edited by markthetog (31 May 2011 - 13:51)
31 May 2011 - 14:2458050
No such law, particularly not for editorials.

You can request anyway and any reputable company would likely comply - but it isn't law unless it crosses into data-protection-act or privacy-invasion territory.

It's advisable to have consent forms filled out as a matter of principle, particularly where your publication may be sold in other regions with more restrictive laws, but it isn't a legal requirement in the UK at least.

For print or any commercial media there is of course copyright law, but copyright is held by the photographer (or their employer), not you, unless otherwise agreed on paper.

Here's a decent reference guide for what is and isn't acceptable for UK photography:

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/uk-photographers-rights-v2/

It basically boils down to whether you're on private property and the owner of such wishes photography to be restricted, or if there's a clear expectation of privacy (i.e. changing room/bathroom/etc). Otherwise, we're all essentially fair game.

Expo (only with support from ExCeL) could have locked down all photography if they wished as it is private property, but they haven't, and doing so would have far more negative effects for us than positive!

Also don't forget that as part of Expo attendance you agree to the site photo policy which last time I checked explicitly stated you agree your photograph may be taken and used in any form, including promotional material for Expo itself. They used to have it on one of the pillars by the entrance in big letters though I haven't seen it for a while.

You might have more luck catching them on misrepresentation, defamation of character, or anything like that, but on photography law, no chance sadly..


Not meaning to sound harsh, I'm all for cosplay getting a good light and not having fellow cosplayers' names or pictures dragged through the mud! But misinformation and pitchforks at dawn aren't going to help :/


31 May 2011 - 14:2558051
Did anyone get the paper with it in?


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31 May 2011 - 15:0658055
Fair points made, I've only got studio work to base off of as its what I studied and its what my wife does, I guess the fact that she was asked to stop and pose for the photo doesn't change it from being a press photo


31 May 2011 - 15:1658056
What Mark and Nert said.

Yes, the article has misrepresented cosplay. From this we learn that misinformation and assumptions only lead to misunderstandings. The same applies to what we say and do here - talking about photography rights and the law in a half-informed or uninformed way only serves to spread misunderstanding and make things worse. If anyone wants to talk about the law, please research on it before talking about it, rather than talk about what you THINK the law says.

Quote nert:
Also don't forget that as part of Expo attendance you agree to the site photo policy which last time I checked explicitly stated you agree your photograph may be taken and used in any form, including promotional material for Expo itself. They used to have it on one of the pillars by the entrance in big letters though I haven't seen it for a while.


Yup, that's the policy. Tickets Conditions of Use, no.13.

That's why it's always important to read the small print. *is reminded of South Park humancentipad episode...*

What happened was bad. Cosplayers as well as good journalists and good photographers who respect cosplay all have the right to be upset about it. But at least it was a small tabloid not a massive national paper. Consider it a lesson learnt and move on. People constantly need new sensations from the media; you'll be surprised how quickly this will all be forgotten.



Last edited by Pez (31 May 2011 - 15:22)
31 May 2011 - 15:5758057
These bastards need sueing, and sueing HARD.
It's definitely illegal for them to completely misquote you and use your photo without your permission, and it makes me rage EVEN HARDER that in this article they're saying that people went to expo JUST to impress the fucking idiots at BB.
I'm also kind of worried, on the saturday this guy came up to me with a big camera and started talking to me and asking me questions about my costume and where I was from, I didn't think anything of it at the time but I'm worried I might be misrepresented or something. :/


31 May 2011 - 16:1358058
OH GOD POLITICS

i have no intention to go back to mcm because of everything, they are clearly clueless, if no one remembers the incidents with aya or ame, i forgot which one it was a few years back, it just calls for trouble, everyone knew it would be, and now all this has happened, the MCM admins could not care about how people are feeling and telling to treat it as media hype and move on, so do we have to just sit back after every convention or expo where the media is and have this crap thrown at every time, i don't want it and i'm pretty sure no one else wants it, unless the article is actually true facts about the whole thing, that is fine, but labelling us and treating us like complete different things that we all look for fame and want money, sure i'd like to, but i'd do it in my own way possible. so until people get there heads out of the dirt and see the light for once, you aren't getting me anywhere near the media till i see positive newspaper reports, HELL I'D EVEN DO IT MYSELF JUST TO GET THE BRIGHT SIDE OF COSPLAYING

but yeah, rain i'm sorry all this has to happen to you, it is not right and certainly is something that should not have happened without consent so it really annoys me that all this happens


31 May 2011 - 16:4758061
I thought all of the pre-Expo drama about Big Brother was really overreacting but I didn't expect anything this disrespectful to come out of it.

Wow, I'm really annoyed about this.
Especially how they implyed that we all cosplayed to attract their attention. I mean, seriously?


31 May 2011 - 17:0158065
Quote Tiduus227:
i have no intention to go back to mcm because of everything, they are clearly clueless..


Once again, this has nothing to do with Expo, taking it out on them is only making us all look worse.

At the end of the day any newspaper reporter could easily go in via normal entry, carry no ID, snap a photo and write a made-up story with imaginary quotes aplenty. I've seen companies and websites pop up with images stolen from cosplayers completely without permission from cosplayer or photographer - is this somehow the event they were taken at's fault? No.

The Telegraph did make a rather terrible article after last AyaCon, but the BBC made a rather favourable piece just last Expo, as at other times have the Metro, the Independant, SFX and Neo as well as several small pieces dotted over regional newspapers and magazines for years. Citing two bad articles over dozens of fair ones isn't exactly unbiased, and proves nothing.

The News of the World and Take A Break were there too, do you think they should've been refused entry too?


31 May 2011 - 17:0858067
Quote nert:
Quote Tiduus227:
i have no intention to go back to mcm because of everything, they are clearly clueless..


Once again, this has nothing to do with Expo, taking it out on them is only making us all look worse.


I have been saying this for the last two days.

What worse is it seems that Mike Towers is behind the Facebook thing. And we all he doesn't have alterior motives...


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