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03 Sep 2010 - 08:1539867
Am I the only person who thinks it’s not a good idea for the cosplay community to be seen as endorsing youngsters dressing down etc.? We’re already seen in a negative light by a lot of the media, and many people already think it’s a fetish hobby....


03 Sep 2010 - 08:4339870
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Am I the only person who thinks it’s not a good idea for the cosplay community to be seen as endorsing youngsters dressing down etc.? We’re already seen in a negative light by a lot of the media, and many people already think it’s a fetish hobby....


It's not so much endorsing it as just...letting people do what they want.


03 Sep 2010 - 10:1439875
I think the younger generation now are growing up ALOT faster, I see 10-13yr old girls with full faces of make up and short skirts etc when I was that age I was more bothered about playing video games etc!

Therefore I think younger cosplayer's will also follow this new 'growing up way to early trend' & that will reflect in the cosplay's they wear. I think they have common sense, but I don't think they would know exactly what to do or how to handle a bad situation.
Luckily at expo with the mass amount of people, nothing bad is likely to happen & I think the older cosplayer's look out for the younger ones.

I don't think there's anything that can be done really, kids just grow up far to quickly nowadays!

Ohh and another point would be if they see the older people doing skimpy costumes & they look good, younger easily influenced kids will naturally want to copy & follow their elders! ;D


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03 Sep 2010 - 11:3039882
Quote KhaosKreator:
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Quote KhaosKreator:
Thoughts I have on this:

1)That people you consider too young are wearing outfits that make you uncomfortable, not them. People need to get over this idea that being naked is in some way dirty. People under 16 are sexual beings too, that's what puberty is all about. It's wrong to deny them to explore their own sexuality, which is also about how they feel when they wear certain clothes.


I find it incredibly disturbing that you're encouraging children to "explore their own sexuality".


Yes, because sexuality pings on at 16 like a lightbulb when the government says it's legal.


How old is under 16?
14? 12? 10?
The reason there is a limit is in order to distinguish who needs protection and who can fend for themselves. 16 is the limit in this country, legally. This is a little higher than some people may mature, but the reason the bar is set higher, rather than lower, is to protect those who might mature later. It isn’t as damaging to have to wait a little. In fact, it builds patience and self control, or it should if approached maturely.

What’s more, encouraging kids to find their identity through their sexuality is, in my mind, disturbing. There is more to life than sex. You don’t find out who you are by dressing down and sleeping around. You degrade yourself by doing that. Shouldn’t we be encouraging those who are under age to find their identity another way? They don’t have to feel pressured into using their body to identify themselves.

I'm sorry if I seem a bit fired up about this, but I do a lot of work with young people and children and I'm really quite passionate about thier wellbeing.


03 Sep 2010 - 11:5239885
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:

The reason there is a limit is in order to distinguish who needs protection and who can fend for themselves. 16 is the limit in this country, legally. This is a little higher than some people may mature, but the reason the bar is set higher, rather than lower, is to protect those who might mature later. It isn’t as damaging to have to wait a little. In fact, it builds patience and self control, or it should if approached maturely.


Agree

But..

Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
You don’t find out who you are by dressing down and sleeping around. You degrade yourself by doing that.


saying that you degrade yourself by doing that is just as much of an opinion as saying that you find out who you are by doing jut that.

you can't really go on about how to approach things maturely and then start stating opinion as if it is fact when it is not! you can't speak for everyone!

Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Shouldn’t we be encouraging those who are under age to find their identity another way? They don’t have to feel pressured into using their body to identify themselves.


How do you know that those under age feel pressured like that? If they want to wear a particular cosplay, it's their choice as proved by some younger members in this thread


03 Sep 2010 - 12:0439887
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Quote KhaosKreator:
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Quote KhaosKreator:
Thoughts I have on this:

1)That people you consider too young are wearing outfits that make you uncomfortable, not them. People need to get over this idea that being naked is in some way dirty. People under 16 are sexual beings too, that's what puberty is all about. It's wrong to deny them to explore their own sexuality, which is also about how they feel when they wear certain clothes.


I find it incredibly disturbing that you're encouraging children to "explore their own sexuality".


Yes, because sexuality pings on at 16 like a lightbulb when the government says it's legal.


How old is under 16?
14? 12? 10?
The reason there is a limit is in order to distinguish who needs protection and who can fend for themselves. 16 is the limit in this country, legally. This is a little higher than some people may mature, but the reason the bar is set higher, rather than lower, is to protect those who might mature later. It isn’t as damaging to have to wait a little. In fact, it builds patience and self control, or it should if approached maturely.

What’s more, encouraging kids to find their identity through their sexuality is, in my mind, disturbing. There is more to life than sex. You don’t find out who you are by dressing down and sleeping around. You degrade yourself by doing that. Shouldn’t we be encouraging those who are under age to find their identity another way? They don’t have to feel pressured into using their body to identify themselves.

I'm sorry if I seem a bit fired up about this, but I do a lot of work with young people and children and I'm really quite passionate about thier wellbeing.


You are incredible worked up by this. I do understand your point, when i was younger i never wore a skirt unless i was on holiday never mind had a face full of make-up and yes i do agree that most kids now are pregnant ALOT faster, 'under-age and pregnant' in my eyes is discussing. But really, how can we stop this? if anything cosplay encourages them to dress up rather than down and to make themselves be seen.

This is a personal opinion but mostly the parents fault, there young themselves therefore encouraging there daughters to think that is alight and so on, tbh there isn't any punishment, you don't get made to have an abortion, laws to slack, heck if it was up to me all them rapist and paedophiles in jail would be strung up by the neck. Anyways, the parents also will be buying them the clothes there wearing etc...this is gotten off topic and is a really serious one, but no ones getting anywhere by arguing over there opinion point. Make action if you really want to do something.


__________________
i'll tear down the sky if it'll save her
03 Sep 2010 - 12:1239888
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
What’s more, encouraging kids to find their identity through their sexuality is, in my mind, disturbing. There is more to life than sex.


I see what you're getting at, but you might be getting the topics confused. Sexuality and personal identities are about many things, and it includes dressing up in different ways to see what you are most comfortable with. Exploring sexuality doesn't necessarily involve sleeping around.

After reading what everyone's said here, I'm starting to wonder if my initial viewpoints were... a bit too narrow? Now I'm starting to think that it is good for younger children to dress up, even if they're showing a bit more than they normally would - but that's as long as we provide a safe avenue for them to do so, and they don't feel pressurised into dressing up in the first place, and they must not feel pressurised to act in a certain way just because they're dressed up.

The most obvious way to protect younger ones would seem to be to stop them from dressing up. But ultimately that's not the solution. Pervs are hard to catch but they need to be caught. And people responsible for the children need to make sure the kids understand what they're doing, how to protect themselves and to ignore pressure from others to do things they're not ready to do.

And of course, basic things such as looking out for each other at events are essential. Don't just ignore a lost-looking child by thinking that they must be with some adults.


03 Sep 2010 - 12:1939889
Quote NekoShuffle:


Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
You don’t find out who you are by dressing down and sleeping around. You degrade yourself by doing that.


saying that you degrade yourself by doing that is just as much of an opinion as saying that you find out who you are by doing jut that.

you can't really go on about how to approach things maturely and then start stating opinion as if it is fact when it is not! you can't speak for everyone!


No, I can't speak for everyone. How would you find your identity? And out of curiosity, why would you say it isn't degrading to sleep around?

Not actually wanting to get into a violent fight here btw, trying to word this as sensitivly as I can and failing a little I think. Sorry!

Quote NekoShuffle:

Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Shouldn’t we be encouraging those who are under age to find their identity another way? They don’t have to feel pressured into using their body to identify themselves.


How do you know that those under age feel pressured like that? If they want to wear a particular cosplay, it's their choice as proved by some younger members in this thread


I know because I felt pressured by it at that age, and do now even. I also have lots of friends who are much younger than me (all ages from ten up to my age really) and I've discussed things like this with them before. The large majority of them would say they feel pressured to dress skantily and to have sex very young.
Nearly every aspect of the media promotes that you have to look and dress and act a certain way in order to be accpetable as a woman or man, so it's not just cosplay really.

How someone acts and dresses is, ultimatly, their choice. But younger people are often more suseptible to peer pressure (of course this varies from person to person).


03 Sep 2010 - 12:2539891
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Quote KhaosKreator:
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Quote KhaosKreator:
Thoughts I have on this:

1)That people you consider too young are wearing outfits that make you uncomfortable, not them. People need to get over this idea that being naked is in some way dirty. People under 16 are sexual beings too, that's what puberty is all about. It's wrong to deny them to explore their own sexuality, which is also about how they feel when they wear certain clothes.


I find it incredibly disturbing that you're encouraging children to "explore their own sexuality".


Yes, because sexuality pings on at 16 like a lightbulb when the government says it's legal.


How old is under 16?
14? 12? 10?
The reason there is a limit is in order to distinguish who needs protection and who can fend for themselves. 16 is the limit in this country, legally. This is a little higher than some people may mature, but the reason the bar is set higher, rather than lower, is to protect those who might mature later. It isn’t as damaging to have to wait a little. In fact, it builds patience and self control, or it should if approached maturely.

What’s more, encouraging kids to find their identity through their sexuality is, in my mind, disturbing. There is more to life than sex. You don’t find out who you are by dressing down and sleeping around. You degrade yourself by doing that. Shouldn’t we be encouraging those who are under age to find their identity another way? They don’t have to feel pressured into using their body to identify themselves.

I'm sorry if I seem a bit fired up about this, but I do a lot of work with young people and children and I'm really quite passionate about thier wellbeing.


Sexuality refers to when a person becomes interested in sexual activity.

This means interest in relationships and attraction as well as personal sexual development. This sort of thing starts around 10 or so, normally around the same time masturbation begins.

You're thinking of sexuality as just having sex, there's a lot more to it than that and it is a part of who you are. It's also how you see yourself, your attraction to others and learning how to create relationships.

If you're passionate about children's well being you should stop judging them by standards you deem acceptable and encourage them to figure out what they consider to be right.


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03 Sep 2010 - 12:5539892
Quote SachikoYumi:
heck if it was up to me all them rapist and paedophiles in jail would be strung up by the neck.


o__O

That is ridiculous. Rapists I've got much less sympathy for but I still don't think they should be strung up by the neck.

Lemme go a bit off topic here because it's really shocking how even the most open minded of people don't see this point of view:

Pedophilia isn't something that people can switch on and off? Maybe it's genetic, maybe it's environmental but the fact is that they have an attraction much like a fetish, they can't control it and it has to be channelled out someway, yet pedophiles found with child porn on their PC will get thrown in jail for it, for what I believe is them trying to channel their attraction.

admittedly even I think its a bit odd, and pedophiles that actively do stuff to kids are VERY wrong and I don't feel sympathy for them even half as much. However I do think that it is a bit appauling of society to take really extreme actions because they are too pre-occupied with how gross it is rather than looking at the bigger picture; there is no help for these people yet if they went to a psychiatrist or something they would probably still end up in jail. it's a lose-lose situation and then we wonder why pedophillia will not stop.

rant over!


03 Sep 2010 - 13:0839894
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:

No, I can't speak for everyone. How would you find your identity? And out of curiosity, why would you say it isn't degrading to sleep around?


Because their sex life is none of yours or even my business! Yes there are lines to be drawn, age limits which are pretty much unacceptable but that's case dependant and we can't make sweeping judgements about whether it is right or wrong or not. If the parents see the two as a suitable couple non-sexually then it is up to them what they get up to sexually. All you can do is give them the facts!

Not everyone who sleeps around is degrading themselves, some are just experimenting with their sexuality and others are just having fun and they are completely fine with that. Where's the problem? What's degrading about it?


03 Sep 2010 - 13:2739895
Quote NekoShuffle:
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:

No, I can't speak for everyone. How would you find your identity? And out of curiosity, why would you say it isn't degrading to sleep around?


Because their sex life is none of yours or even my business! Yes there are lines to be drawn, age limits which are pretty much unacceptable but that's case dependant and we can't make sweeping judgements about whether it is right or wrong or not. If the parents see the two as a suitable couple non-sexually then it is up to them what they get up to sexually. All you can do is give them the facts!

Not everyone who sleeps around is degrading themselves, some are just experimenting with their sexuality and others are just having fun and they are completely fine with that. Where's the problem? What's degrading about it?


Very good points. This comes from this idea that "Sex is the most disgusting and degrading thing you can do so save it for someone you love!"

Sex is FUN. It makes you feel good, it's great for your health and for people who use it for more of an emotional connection it's a time you can make the person you like feel the best.

This society has a lot of slut shaming, especially aimed at women. I notice throughout this topic young boys in skimpy costumes has not been discussed. Why is that?


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03 Sep 2010 - 14:1339902
Quote Hannah-Kiwii:
Am I the only person who thinks it’s not a good idea for the cosplay community to be seen as endorsing youngsters dressing down etc.? We’re already seen in a negative light by a lot of the media, and many people already think it’s a fetish hobby....


No ones endorsing it. Who are we to decided what people should or should not be wearing? Ultimately its up to the individual.

Also I agree with Tab. Sex is a recreational activity. Its good for you. Its also a biological function.

There is a time and place for it, and sometimes you can just be too young. The worst thing that can happen in my mind, is going into something like sex, with no knowledge about it before hand.

My little sister is 11, and I know that telling her its bad and that she should never do it will only encourage her. I was the same. Its the way kids work. Instead, I'd much rather she felt she could come to me with any questions or whatever, and not feel like I would instantly dismiss her as a child and that she is wrong for even asking about it, or have a go at her, or beat her boyfriend up...

THAT to me, would make me a bigger disappointment than she or any other person at her age could EVER be.

Oh, and like, on the subject of young cosplayers not wearing very much, and the Jessica rabbit vs. Tinkerbell thing, what about like, young ballerina's? They're pretty scantily clad. Or like, them young salsa dancers that wear all the make-up, and then dance all sexily? <- That one actually creeps me out. Surely that's the same thing?


__________________
Asha Ketchum.

Last edited by Chikinpoo (03 Sep 2010 - 14:19)
05 Sep 2010 - 03:1540015
The topic of 'young' cosplayers bothers me. It's too broad a range. Pre-pubescent children are a completely different ball game to post, and even then 13 year olds and 16 year olds are poles apart.

A couple of expos ago I saw a young girl (10-11, pre-pubescent) dressed as Misa from Death Note with her parents, which made me uncomfortable. Mainly I was unsure why her parents had allowed her to dress like that, and I wondered if they understood the character, but I suppose at least she was accompanied. On the other hand, a 16 year old dressed like that would come across as fairly normal to me (and, hell, I've seen worse out in town. XD)

I think that it's up to the cosplayer, to a point. If they're comfortable and having fun I wouldn't want to step in and stop that. On the other hand, at what point do people become aware of what they're wearing and other people's reactions to them? And how do you declare when that difference is? Everyone matures at different points.

Quote KhaosKreator:

This society has a lot of slut shaming, especially aimed at women. I notice throughout this topic young boys in skimpy costumes has not been discussed. Why is that?


I'm having difficulties coming up with skimpy male costumes... shirtless, or open shirted, perhaps, but not to the extent to some of the female ones. I can't think of seeing that many young men cosplaying either, especially in such cosplays. Of course, I just might not have noticed, and I understand the point that you're trying to make (if the sexuality fail above had been posted on any other topic I would have agreed with you), but I think it's a bit misplaced here.

Quote Pez:

Like, at JAF recently, a very small cosplaying child recognised my Zidane and glomped me from behind. She was dressed as some sort of a fairy (?) and seemed to be there on her own. Not only was that dangerous (my tail was attached to an inner belt by nails and wood), if I was that way inclined I could've lured her away and nobody would've known what'd happened...


If you're talking about the girl I think you are (longish brown hair, white dress that was split), then I was very uncomfortable about her running around by herself as well. Especially since her dress was either ripped, or cut to past her crotch. In her case I think it's failure on her parents part, since she was clearly to young to be running around by herself, or really be dressed like that, and I very much doubt she realised the danger that she was in.


__________________
-an Angel that didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards-
05 Sep 2010 - 12:3640023
The only problem I'd have with it is their attitude towards it and their safety. If they had tried to make the costume a bit less revealing if it needed it then I would feel like they were making an effort to be age appropriate (10-13ish) but still have fun. I mean even I (a pretty headstrong 19 year old) had problems at a con with someone who creeped me out quite alot because I was wearing a bunny girl haruhi cosplay and even I felt helpless.

I think one of the main problems is girls 14-17 scantily clad who have been discovering their own sexuality and are likely to be coersed into getting drunk and then god knows what.

To be honest I remember myself at that age, I was a nightmare I thought getting completely plastered and getiing hit on was what a good time was and subsequently put myself in danger alot. =/

We just sort of need to keep an eye out for them and steer them in the right direction if we can. I remember at my first con I was 16 and a drunk 14 year old girl (not from the con) needed my help (to the loo) and it was a pain in the butt because she kept trying to hit on me and its like please I'm trying to help you do yourself a favor!

I also think special one day events for just younger cosplayers (maybe 10-16ish?) would be a good idea, where they could experience the scene around people their own age and they would have a parent chaperone if under a certain age.


__________________
'You have to get to know her' "She eases up does she?" 'No but you get a better sense of when to duck'
05 Sep 2010 - 12:4040024
I think that as long as someone feel comfortably dressing or acting in some way (without breaking any rule or laws, of course), than others have to let him(her) go for it.
As 41 year young, lot of my friends (included my wife) think that my passion is a little strange, but still are my friends and share my happiness for the progress in the costume making.

Maybe the problem is not how someone dress, but how someone else judge that costume: for me, showing some skin do not automatically means that the cosplayer have a "bitchy" behaviour or a troubled life, and not even that he(she) will have or is looking for troubles, as wearing the armour of a "blood-thirsty" monster doesn't mean the cosplayer wants to go around slaughtering people.
Moreover, if someone dress little, is because the character is little dressed. What we have to do: ban a videogame or a comic (aimed to a younger audience) to underage,to avoid their little minds to be corrupted? At this point we should even forbid them to leave the house, since "it's a jungle out there"!

Eventually I should find a skimpy costume ridiculous, specially if the cosplayer don't have a "decent" body (p.e. cosplaying a very "muscular" character if you are skinny as a leave), but for the sake of cosplaying, I wish everyone have fun!

BTW: I don't understand how from a topic about skimpy cospalyers we arrive to raping, child abuse, STD, deviant sexuality, distorted family relations, pedophilia and so on. Maybe someone need to take things a (little) bit less serious...



Last edited by Giuka (05 Sep 2010 - 13:27)
11 Sep 2010 - 15:4940466
You know i see a lot of you are saying you don't endorse it and that teenage/child pregnancies are wrong, yet all of you seem to be attacking hannah who is saying too rightly as i think most people would agree, that letting kids have sex is not an ok thing and waving around their skin so that any tom, dick or harry, can stare at their bodies and think perversly is not right.

would any of you be happy if your little brother/sister/daughter/son was walking around in a provacative outfit, you seem to be saying it's people's choices because you have no attachment to these people.

Hey attack me in this topic if you want but just think how ok it would be if it was your relative walking out the door in nothing but underwear pretty much.


11 Sep 2010 - 17:4340470
My sister got interested in anime and manga when she was about 14 (she's just turned 16) and she often plans on setting up trips to go to Expo and cosplay there without me, but with a couple of her (same age) friends. She wants to go cosplaying as Chii from Chobits - most specifically one of the outfits which consists of her wearing just a big man's shirt (if you've not seen it, it pretty much only just covers Chii's crotch).

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable wearing that little around and about the house, let alone in a public space, of which i did point out to her. Her reply was "Yeah but the wig is long so it'll cover up my butt!"

So I had a serious conversation with her about people who go around taking photos of girls wearing very little and that she should be careful and so on - especially considering she looks a bit older than she actually is.
I told her with everything I knew, but she was determined to do this cosplay. Too be honest, my sister is far more confident than I am. She is gobby and loud and tells people exactly what she thinks, even when she was younger than 14, so I felt that as long as I had made clear some of the types of people she could run into, and what to do in such situations I had made her as informed as possible.

But too be honest I wasn't all that worried. I think people need to take matters of skimpy-cosplays for younger cosplayers on a case-by-case basis. I think kids need to be well-informed of just the kinds of people that could be at events, and should be aware of the dangers, what some characters are viewed as and so on. I think if they know these things they are able to make more of an informed decision on the matter of who or what they should cosplay and whether or not it is safe.

I still wouldn't be entirely comfortable with it myself, but at least I'm letting her make her own decision on the matter so she can work out whether or not she feels like she should cosplay this or that. Again, not saying this would work for every child, but I do think that generalising these things isn't the answer.


Dunno if I'm still on topic or not as the thread's gone all wibbly-wobbly with where its going >>;;; , but there's my 2p.


__________________
I'm going to slash your pillow and tear out all the stuffing with a motorbike made of jelly.
20 Sep 2010 - 09:4841111
I started cosplaying when I was like... 12. (I'm 15 now ^^) Just before London October Expo... 08? I don't really not wear much. Like... My first cosplay was Sakura Kinomoto where I wore her 3rd opening dress. Which is the white, knee lengthed one with poofy sleeves etc. Not really showy at all. Soo. Yeah. And since then I've not done many showy cosplays also. Whenever I do a short skirt cosplay, I always wear shorts under so that I don't panty shot etc. I do, however, know some cosplayers that are like that. There's one girl at the meets I go to, just turned 13, who cosplays Misa Amane. And she always wears this titchy tiny skirt and not appropriate underwear. She often is found running around and jumping alot, sooo... Not very decent. That's how we all know the underwear she wears also. And her shirts are really low and you can always see her bra etc. It's like. Undecent because there's lots of males going and it makes em all feel very awkward with a little girl running around with everything practically on show. >< And it makes all younger cosplayers look like sluts. x'D


20 Sep 2010 - 10:4641113
I see the points here and its good but i agree with the tab side of things

what most people in this community needs to stop doing is judging and trying to change things,and whining about it all the time , cosplay is making a costume NOT politics, if someone wants to dress skimpy DO ITT, seriously some of you make it out like theres a ton of pedophiles sitting on the cranes picking out small children targets and going MINE MINE MINE as if its finding nemo seagulls

seriously just stop trying to judge and tell people what to do, i say fair doos to someone who does something skimpy and its not exactly helping the young ones confidence with all these fecking threads basically telling them there sluts if they do it because thats the impression there going to get, kids have to grow up, and part of growing up is taking risks, its tough but it has to be done or youd just be a social retard if you didnt.

Reiss



Last edited by ryaoki (20 Sep 2010 - 10:47)
23 Sep 2010 - 16:0641345
Mabey this me being old and grumpy.....
But I kinda dont approve of it but at same time not really my place to say what people should wear to events unless you know its ¬_¬ Nipple and crotch tape.

But same time on talk of perverts I think it's a community wide responsability too look out for the younger people in our hobby, so if you think see anything bad going down o0 go up check or point out too staff.


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