Login or register to post.
Login to reply  Page: « < 2 of 3 > »
06 Aug 2010 - 21:4938134
I'd love to see a photograph of the manga collection of anyone who claims to "read manga online, then go out and buy what they read."

Kick and scream as much as you wish, artists, writers and publishers need to make money to feed their families. Free-read sites compromise that. This "cheap society" that we're living in since the advent of high speed internet is strangling the industry. And really, REALLY, you've never had it so good. Back in the 90's if you wanted a volume of your favourite manga, it would set you back around £25, or you would have to buy each chapter individually in american style comic format for about £3-£5 each depending on who published it.

Also, most English language publishers do half volume previews of most of their titles. Tokyopop certainly does. So the "I like to use it as a way to preview at home" argument is inexcusable.


07 Aug 2010 - 04:0038160
Quote herbert:
I'd love to see a photograph of the manga collection of anyone who claims to "read manga online, then go out and buy what they read."

Kick and scream as much as you wish, artists, writers and publishers need to make money to feed their families. Free-read sites compromise that. This "cheap society" that we're living in since the advent of high speed internet is strangling the industry. And really, REALLY, you've never had it so good. Back in the 90's if you wanted a volume of your favourite manga, it would set you back around £25, or you would have to buy each chapter individually in american style comic format for about £3-£5 each depending on who published it.

Also, most English language publishers do half volume previews of most of their titles. Tokyopop certainly does. So the "I like to use it as a way to preview at home" argument is inexcusable.


Well, I would like to take your word for it but I think tokyopop is the only publisher to do that. I'm not seeing anything on the del rey website, nothing for Viz Media either. Yen Press doesn't, tanoshimi doesnt, Dark Horse doesn't, Kodansha english doesn't and so on...

I'm not calling you a liar here but it seems like you didnt really do much research at all. In fact I would be led to believe that most English Language publishers do not do half volume previews.

There is also no proof to suggest that the artists are losing out because of people reading manga online. Mangaka were making a living before there was international interest in Manga and their livlihoods do not depend upon overseas sales - if this was so, every single manga title would have to be published over here else it would die, however this is not the case as proven by the miniscule number of officially translated manga in comparison with the amount of manga on the japanese market.

Also to be considered is the fact that not all manga is bound and sold on shelves, some are still in magazines and have yet to be serialised let alone translated. These magazines sell extremely well thus negating the dependency upon a foreign market once again.

The only people who lose out from manga being read online are the english language publishers. Realistically you will find that the majority of people that read manga do so because they found out about it on the internet, where the option of free manga was already available to them before they even got off their chairs to go to their manga outlet.

If people are deciding that they don't want to buy manga anymore then the reasons will not be 'because scanlations are available' (because they have been available for years) but instead because of economic reasons, which is up to the manga publishers to deal with much like any other company would.

For example: If a company selling bleach (the cleaning product) realises that more and more people have stopped buying it and are instead using white spirit and vodka to clean things then it is an indication that they need to lower their prices, not ban the sale of white spirit and vodka.

If you want harsh the truth of the matter, the only reason that manga publishing companies want to remove websites hosting scanlations is because they would like to boost their profits in any way they can, not because they are losing money.

What they fail to realise is that the entry point of their potential customers come from reading free manga online, whereas most of those who refuse to buy manga full stop will just resort to finding other methods of getting their manga for free.

In the end, the sensible solution would be to force scanlation websites to remove already published manga and also provide a pay monthly online read-service for those who don't like to have their rooms filled with manga as Yuka suggested. That was pretty much all there is to it and all that needed to be said; we just need to wait for the publishers to see sense.

OK. That was a really long and serious post, hopefully everyone got a bit of marketing 101 info there. Maybe herbert is a troll or something but either way hopefully whoever reads this learns something new ^^

I write all this as someone who has never read any published manga online before simply because I do like to have it in physical form and packing my bookshelves full of manga makes me very happy!!


07 Aug 2010 - 09:1638163
Quote herbert:
Back in the 90's if you wanted a volume of your favourite manga, it would set you back around £25

Really? I remember buying manga in the '90s and the prices were pretty comparable to what they are now.


__________________
Cara bell', cara mia bella, mia bambina, o ciel!
07 Aug 2010 - 10:3138164
Quote herbert:

Kick and scream as much as you wish, artists, writers and publishers need to make money to feed their families.

we all realise they need to make a living, but they made a living two years ago when free scans were around there not something thats new, they have been around for years and they made a living and fed there families before this suposed drop in sales, i guess they havent thaught that wot with the price opf everything going up that ppl dont have the money to spend £7-8 one a single manga that when they get it home and have a proper read they dont ever read again.


Quote herbert:
Also, most English language publishers do half volume previews of most of their titles. Tokyopop certainly does. So the "I like to use it as a way to preview at home" argument is inexcusable.



It would be ok if all of the publishers did the same as tokyopop and did previews then there wpuld be no need for the free scans as ppl could use them to preview, but they dont, as far as i know tokyopop are the ONLY publishers that do that.
I for one do preview at home and then go out and buy the ones i like.


__________________
Oh i am ninja, he is ninja, we are ninja to.
07 Aug 2010 - 10:4138165
Quote NekoShuffle:
Quote herbert:
I'd love to see a photograph of the manga collection of anyone who claims to "read manga online, then go out and buy what they read."

Kick and scream as much as you wish, artists, writers and publishers need to make money to feed their families. Free-read sites compromise that. This "cheap society" that we're living in since the advent of high speed internet is strangling the industry. And really, REALLY, you've never had it so good. Back in the 90's if you wanted a volume of your favourite manga, it would set you back around £25, or you would have to buy each chapter individually in american style comic format for about £3-£5 each depending on who published it.

Also, most English language publishers do half volume previews of most of their titles. Tokyopop certainly does. So the "I like to use it as a way to preview at home" argument is inexcusable.


There is also no proof to suggest that the artists are losing out because of people reading manga online. Mangaka were making a living before there was international interest in Manga and their livlihoods do not depend upon overseas sales - if this was so, every single manga title would have to be published over here else it would die, however this is not the case as proven by the miniscule number of officially translated manga in comparison with the amount of manga on the japanese market.

Also to be considered is the fact that not all manga is bound and sold on shelves, some are still in magazines and have yet to be serialised let alone translated. These magazines sell extremely well thus negating the dependency upon a foreign market once again.

The only people who lose out from manga being read online are the english language publishers. Realistically you will find that the majority of people that read manga do so because they found out about it on the internet, where the option of free manga was already available to them before they even got off their chairs to go to their manga outlet.



I get what you're saying, and you're probably right, but just because the mangaka doesn't EARN their living from foreign sales, doesn't make them not getting anything from foreign readers justified. It's still their work whether it's in magazine form, manga form or online, and they should be paid for it when someone reads it. (And I don't mean every time someone reads it - that would be silly.)

All this is moot as far as I'm concerned since, as I said before, I will always buy the actual work. I'm just concerned as a writer that these kind of issue transcend all forms of media and it won't be long before people expect someone to put the work online for free and the artist/writer/creator gets nothing.

Quote Rwylin:
Quote herbert:

Kick and scream as much as you wish, artists, writers and publishers need to make money to feed their families.

we all realise they need to make a living, but they made a living two years ago when free scans were around there not something thats new, they have been around for years and they made a living and fed there families before this suposed drop in sales, i guess they havent thaught that wot with the price opf everything going up that ppl dont have the money to spend £7-8 one a single manga that when they get it home and have a proper read they dont ever read again.


Doesn't matter if they were making their living when free scans were available - if you're not paying for the work then it is theft, pure and simple.

As for spending the money, reading it once and then never again, I find that hard to believe. I love picking up a random manga novel once I've read it and just flicking through and enjoying my favourite bits again. And you could say this about anything - a TV series you buy on DVD. That's about £20 but do you only watch it once and then never again? No, you'll probably stick it on again and watch an episode or two, otherwise why buy the series? Well because you enjoy it. Why can't it be the same with manga? Plus with an actual copy you don't have to worry about not being able to read it if the power goes out



Last edited by perfectly_purple (07 Aug 2010 - 10:46)
07 Aug 2010 - 11:0838167
They do have every right to do this tbh. The only beef I have is that the mangas I read are currently on a cliff hanger D8

But also, I generally read online to see if the manga is good or not before buying. Otherwise I get annoyed if they don't live up to expectations.


__________________
Ayacon Plans
07 Aug 2010 - 11:1838170
It's the financial figures that count for the publishers. If a year later they notice that their profits dropped a lot, then they might reconsider the online thing. If their profits go up, then the argument of "free onlines are previews" doesn't stand. Time will tell.

It's like the music industry and the file-sharing vs free downloads vs paid for etc etc. We'll just have to patiently wait until they figure it out. In the meantime, borrow manga from the library or do swaps with friends!


07 Aug 2010 - 13:0938178
Quote Sillabub:
Quote herbert:
Back in the 90's if you wanted a volume of your favourite manga, it would set you back around £25

Really? I remember buying manga in the '90s and the prices were pretty comparable to what they are now.


i can semi confirm this. it was generally stuff from publishers like viz, back when viz released manga as a standard comicbook first, then condensed it into volumes. i know i stopped buying Ranma at volume 7 because of the price, and didn't dare consider some of the other titles.

it was mainly down to the cost of importing stuff back then, and how diamond comic dist. controlled pretty much everything manga related that came into the country. therefore you generally paid the dollar price in pounds. this was way way back though, when there was probably 4-5 stores in the whole of the UK that shelf stocked stuff like Ranma/AMG/etc. my "local" store was Page 45 in nottingham, which was a 120 mile round trip back then.

some publishers like dark horse did cheaper "condensed comic" style editions of stuff. some were absolute bargains for what you got tbh like the UK Mandarin published versions of Akira, Domu, etc which were huge telephone book sized volumes for like £10, or the first two volumes (actually, the first volume split in two) of Ranma that was published by boxtree at £5.99. it's worth pointing out though, that was HALF a volume for £5.99. we now get full volumes for that price, and if you shop smart, you can usually get a btgof deal.

to throw my coin in on the whole subject, while i do read stuff online, it's wrong. right now, i see it as a grey area because we're being enabled by public sites. once the hammer comes down on that though, i'll support it.

mind you, i mainly use an Ad supported free app on my iphone which redirects Ad revenue to the publishers, and notifies publishers before uploading. so far, publishers have been supporting them. but at the same time the Ads are far more high profile than the Ads that sites like onemanga. it has all the major titles and a lot of the lesser known.

i have a comment about western manga sales not supporting the original artist... that's a pretty silly comment, ofcourse western sales support the artist. the publisher has to pre-buy the rights to publish from the japanese publisher, who in turn shares part of that to the artist. if we don't pay for manga, that revenue stream will be cut because publishers aren't bottomless voids of cash, we'll see a drop in what's published both here and in japan because of the way that newblood manga artists break into the industry now.

as for the previewing thing, suggest it to a publisher! if they know that people "read online" to get a taste of the titles, and see how tokyopop do it, i'm sure they will consider following suit.

lastly, i know one of the staff on onemanga. Brandon, aka Jaded (i play RO with him). they were actually supported for a long time by the publishers, but traffic has been increasing on the site, and publisher's sales have been going down. so it's inevitable to be honest. too many people are expecting free manga.

that was a lot of typing. and i hate typing.


__________________
07 Aug 2010 - 13:3238180
Quote xaerael:

i have a comment about western manga sales not supporting the original artist... that's a pretty silly comment, ofcourse western sales support the artist. the publisher has to pre-buy the rights to publish from the japanese publisher, who in turn shares part of that to the artist. if we don't pay for manga, that revenue stream will be cut because publishers aren't bottomless voids of cash, we'll see a drop in what's published both here and in japan because of the way that newblood manga artists break into the industry now.


there is no proof to support this point. also realistically you may like to bear in mind that a very small amount of the proceeds will go to the mangaka if at all. why would we see a drop? Manga is not like music which is produced with the international market in mind.

I also resent that you call my point silly, can you please be a bit more polite?

It is made for the Japanese market because the sale of manga in Japan is phenominal and is purchased by even the most unlikely members of the public, it does not go hand in hand with anime fandom like it does over here. Anyone from housewives to commuters read manga, it is sold in 24/7 stores in Japan; the international market is a drop in the ocean in comparison.

I am interested about your point "we'll see a drop in what's published both here and in japan because of the way that newblood manga artists break into the industry now."

how do newblood manga artists break into the industry and how is this related to the strength of the international market?



Last edited by (07 Aug 2010 - 13:36)
07 Aug 2010 - 14:3738186
it is a silly comment.

ofcourse the original artists get revenue from international sales. they hold the copyright to the artwork.



as you can see from the print information page from that volume of bleach, Kubo owns the copyright. he's sold the printing rights for japan to Shueisha inc. then Shueisha on behalf of Kubo have arranged the english translation and print rights. this means Kubo gets the big cut, Shueisha get a commission payment for setting the arrangement up.

newbloods in japan are initially funded by the big publishers, who pay the artist in advance based on their portfolio, but generally keep 100% of the rights to print whatever is produced in that time. once an artist becomes established they sell the art to publishers, but generally as a clause of the newblood contract, the publisher who originally funded them has first dibs on that print right. that gives publishers full rights to initial titles by developed artists to re-sell to the international market, and long standing connections with the artists to arrange the international rights for later works. pretty simple economics really. a portion of the money they make from this transaction then goes back to the start and funds more newblood artists.

tokyopop recently tried to do something similar with western artists, but it sorta flopped because they tried to over-control the artists by assigning them to writers and inflicting heavy editorial demands, and the titles ended up being pretty lame. (bombos vs. everything, for example).


__________________
07 Aug 2010 - 15:2638193
No no no no no, this is all wrong. While it may say Tite Kubo is the copyright holder (Which he is) the copyrights are more commonly looked after (or even sometimes brought) by the publishing company. There is a link I have posted about halfway through this post addressing this issue - read it, it is very interesting.

I don't think you understand how the manga industry works, let me make this very, very clear for you because too many people are throwing comments and accusations around without any idea of how the industry works:

First of all, the publishing of manga abroad does not account for ANY revenue. You are getting publishing and licensing confused. In the manga life-cycle, a mangaka will get employed by a magazine company and they will place their manga in a manga magazine, lets use shounen jump as an example everybody knows.

Manga magazines make up approximately 20% of magazine sales in Japan, this will be a low-paid first rung on the ladder for the mangaka. The publishing company of Shounen Jump (Shueisha) will use advertising as well as the sales of the magazine to boost profits which they will use to employ more mangaka, print more magazines, support themselves, pay wages etc.

Eventually as a manga becomes more popular it will be published as a bound paperback comic book, and the ROYALTIES will be paid to the manga artist and the authors.

Most of these ROYALTIES will come from the licensing of characters to be used on merchandise or to be made into an anime. This is where a mangaka will make the majority of his or her money. NOT through the sale of their manga.

The Japanese publishing company of the COMIC BOOKS (Say, Kodansha) will sell the license to overseas translators and publishers, of which the mangaka will see 10% of the money gotten from the LICENSING being sold overseas. This is a FIXED RATE. Meaning that once said Mangaka has recieved his or her 10% they will NOT recieve any more money. Buy 1 or buy 100 - it makes no difference to the mangaka.

The money you spend on english translated manga, will go straight to tokyopop or viz media or whichever publisher you brought the manga from, which will then pay for the printing, distribution, staff wages and most importantly, further permission to license more titles.

The Mangaka DOES however make money from the merchandise sold abroad too; so when you've read 5 volumes of Bleach and decide you want to buy a T-shirt with Ichigo's face on it, Tite Kubo will recieve the royalties for that.

Source: jetro.org's (Japan External TRade Organisation) report on market trends & the manga industry.

http://www.jetro.org/trends/market_info_manga.pdf

So, in conclusion what damage do scanlations do? Well, if you took an intuitive look at the situation, you would see that effectively they are not exactly DAMAGING anything (but hear me out).

However, if EVERYONE was to read scanlations, Tokyopop or viz media would not bother buying licenses because they wouldn't recieve their profit from it, and therefore the mangaka would lose their potential 10%.

However, the overseas manga market is still very strong despite the availability of scanlations and this is unlikely to happen.

Scanlation websites that require payment are using copyrighted works without the permission of the holder which means that publishing houses are losing a POTENTIAL 90% if they were to sell the license to these scanlators and the mangaka's are losing their POTENTIAL 10%.

So they aren't effectively losing that which they already have, they are just losing what they COULD have had (A bit like finding £1 on the floor and then having someone steal it 5 minutes later - at the end of the day you aren't really any worse off than you already were).

HOWEVER, while it is fair to say that "the copyright owner DESERVES that profit because someone is using his or her material", realistically we all know that there is no way scanlation groups or the websites hosting scanlations have any intention on purchasing licenses from the publishing house, mainly because most of them can't even afford to keep their servers up and running without having ads smattered all over their websites.

So nothing is effectively LOST to the point where the mangaka is worse off in the long run for it, but it is somewhat rude to do this without the copyright holder's permission (as many have already pointed out) and it is VERY cheeky to charge for it too, the latter will land you in far more legal trouble than the former but I believe both are technically illegal.

We have already been over the benefits of scanlations (good advertising for merchandise and manga alike) and whether or not a scanlation reader is a potential customer and whether or not they would be driven to purchase manga legally if a number of scanlation hosting websites were taken down.

In the end, there are no facts to say whether or not someone will buy manga in this situation because it is dependant on the individual and there is no way to ask every single person who reads scanlations without recieving an innaccurate response.

So in the end, only common sense can be used to determine which is the best way to remove scans of already translated and published manga without diminishing potential customers, because from personal experience I can tell you that scanlations account for a large number of manga sales, as does illegally fansubbed anime.

In CONCLUSION CONCLUSION: If you want companies like TOKYOPOP to stay afloat, you do need to buy manga from them and effectively buy enough to cover their costs to license new titles, plus maintain their business, basically - keep the wheel turning.

Maybe their slowness to purchase the licenses of new titles is because they do not have enough money to buy more but I do not know about the profits or the expendeture of TOKYOPOP or any other publishing companies so I can't say for sure if this is the case.

My standpoint is in fact quite pro-publishers, however I think the 3 main points that they shouldn't overlook is that:

A) By removing scanlations altogether they are likely to do more bad than good by damaging themselves as a result of removing a LOT of potential customers. (And they won't make many friends either!)

B) By looking at the popularity of Scanlations of unlicensed titles they can get a good idea of which licenses they should purchase next and which would be most profitable.

C) The fact that sales are being lost is not down to scanlations and free manga on the internet, it is likely to be a money related issue, as most young people (their target audience) are not made of money and even less so in the current economic climate.

My solutions would be this:

1. Take legal action against scanlation sites hosting ALREADY PUBLISHED manga works and leave the others be - you will find that most scanlation groups themselves will co-operate with this and have no gripes with taking down a manga once it has been licensed - scanlation groups are not anonymous pirates, they are manga fans like you and me who translate for the love of manga, if they felt they were ripping off mangaka, they wouldn't do it.

2. Market manga in a way that makes it more affordable to young people. Yuka's pay and read service idea is excellent, and the losses that may occur from offering more manga at a cheaper rate could be gained from advertising (the manga service will be read by many) in a way similar to what crunchyroll does with the anime it hosts.

Finally (Because I've really gone on here and I wanna bring this to a close), I can see a couple of drawbacks to the pay and go service - first of all is that many young people who read manga (particularly those under 16) are unlikely to have their own credit/debit card to pay for this service and I don't know how co-operative their parents may be.

Secondly, the system used to view manga would have to be intuitive in how it displays the manga or else those pages will end up file-shared in no-time. Although that's something for their IT department to handle.

Neither of these points stop the idea completely, just a few points they should be weary of. In addition to the pay and read service - manga publishers should publish their own magazines previewing chapters of manga, with offers, advertising and so on to just basically promote their company and the manga they publish. I don't know if this is economically feasible but it's an interesting idea. TOKYOPOP does it already I believe but not many people know of it and it is US only I think. If they reached out more as a magazine, people may be more inclined to buy more manga from them too. Just an idea.

Jeeeze, I really went on there. I think Viz media or Tokyopop should give us all jobs, we'd sort out their problems!



Last edited by (07 Aug 2010 - 15:28) Reason: added link
07 Aug 2010 - 15:5238195
Not my place to step in and I'll probably be told off for being unfriendly and OT, but I can't just sit on my hands on this one.

Quote NekoShuffle:
I also resent that you call my point silly, can you please be a bit more polite?


...says the person who insinuated a few comments ago, that:

Quote NekoShuffle:
Maybe herbert is a troll or something


Just because someone hasn't filled out their profile or uploaded pictures it doesn't mean they are a troll. If we talk like this to every new person who joins the site just because they disagree with us, this is going to end up a pretty crap community.

Back to the topic, it seems like an attitude exists where because people's livelihoods didn't depend on this source of income, it's okay for their work to be freely distributed. This I totally disagree with.

Saying that it doesn't matter if they sell 1 or 100 is short-sighted. Although the mangaka may not get any additional money as an immediate result of sales volume because they earn a fixed salary, the sales performance will affect their salary reviews, bonuses, what kind of studio/equipment/assistants they could get. If they don't sell well at all, then they could get dropped by the publisher when it's time for contract renewal.

Lastly, I'm not going to write an essay about how this works but Japanese manga sell very well in Hong Kong and almost every new title is translated into Chinese and published within weeks. Each volume sells for just over £2. This level of interest and such low price was achieved before internet previews were ever available. So taking manga offline will not necessarily kill the interest for it here - it all depends on how the publishers do it. Imagine, if they do it right over here as well, then we could be talking about affordable manga that's released just weeks after Japan.

At the end of the day, if people don't like what's being done, then write to or call the publishers about it. Tell them your good ideas and keep badgering them until they respond as to why they are/are not taking your ideas on board. That's the only thing consumers can do, right?



Last edited by Pez (07 Aug 2010 - 15:53)
07 Aug 2010 - 16:1538197
Quote Pez:
Not my place to step in and I'll probably be told off for being unfriendly and OT, but I can't just sit on my hands on this one.

Quote NekoShuffle:
I also resent that you call my point silly, can you please be a bit more polite?


...says the person who insinuated a few comments ago, that:

Quote NekoShuffle:
Maybe herbert is a troll or something


Just because someone hasn't filled out their profile or uploaded pictures it doesn't mean they are a troll. If we talk like this to every new person who joins the site just because they disagree with us, this is going to end up a pretty crap community.

Back to the topic, it seems like an attitude exists where because people's livelihoods didn't depend on this source of income, it's okay for their work to be freely distributed. This I totally disagree with.

Saying that it doesn't matter if they sell 1 or 100 is short-sighted. Although the mangaka may not get any additional money as an immediate result of sales volume because they earn a fixed salary, the sales performance will affect their salary reviews, bonuses, what kind of studio/equipment/assistants they could get. If they don't sell well at all, then they could get dropped by the publisher when it's time for contract renewal.

Lastly, I'm not going to write an essay about how this works but Japanese manga sell very well in Hong Kong and almost every new title is translated into Chinese and published within weeks. Each volume sells for just over £2. This level of interest and such low price was achieved before internet previews were ever available. So taking manga offline will not necessarily kill the interest for it here - it all depends on how the publishers do it. Imagine, if they do it right over here as well, then we could be talking about affordable manga that's released just weeks after Japan.

At the end of the day, if people don't like what's being done, then write to or call the publishers about it. Tell them your good ideas and keep badgering them until they respond as to why they are/are not taking your ideas on board. That's the only thing consumers can do, right?


Sorry, I did not mean for that to come across as rude, however I have seen on other forums people that will join just to turn a debate into something bitter. he or she has her age listed as 10, has 4 posts and made points which were proven incorrect by a number of people. I thought by putting the possibility out there that we could avoid a flame war situation. Maybe it was unfair of me to make that assumption but I did not do it to be rude, I apologise.

And yes, I've taken your other points on board and I agree.


07 Aug 2010 - 16:2038199
Quote NekoShuffle:
Sorry, I did not mean for that to come across as rude, however I have seen on other forums people that will join just to turn a debate into something bitter. he or she has her age listed as 10, has 4 posts and made points which were proven incorrect by a number of people. I thought by putting the possibility out there that we could avoid a flame war situation. Maybe it was unfair of me to make that assumption but I did not do it to be rude, I apologise.

And yes, I've taken your other points on board and I agree.


Thanks for admitting the mistake. AFAIK, on CI as long as you don't enter age information, you are shown as being 10 years old... (also, if you don't specify gender, then you get a "male" icon next to your name in the "overview" screen!)


07 Aug 2010 - 16:3038200
Quote Pez:
Quote NekoShuffle:
Sorry, I did not mean for that to come across as rude, however I have seen on other forums people that will join just to turn a debate into something bitter. he or she has her age listed as 10, has 4 posts and made points which were proven incorrect by a number of people. I thought by putting the possibility out there that we could avoid a flame war situation. Maybe it was unfair of me to make that assumption but I did not do it to be rude, I apologise.

And yes, I've taken your other points on board and I agree.


Thanks for admitting the mistake. AFAIK, on CI as long as you don't enter age information, you are shown as being 10 years old... (also, if you don't specify gender, then you get a "male" icon next to your name in the "overview" screen!)


Aaaah! That would explain it then ^^ Thanks for clearing that up and sorry Herbert =<


07 Aug 2010 - 16:3038201
Quote NekoShuffle:

Sorry, I did not mean for that to come across as rude, however I have seen on other forums people that will join just to turn a debate into something bitter. he or she has her age listed as 10, has 4 posts and made points which were proven incorrect by a number of people. I thought by putting the possibility out there that we could avoid a flame war situation. Maybe it was unfair of me to make that assumption but I did not do it to be rude, I apologise.

And yes, I've taken your other points on board and I agree.


nothing herbert said was proven incorrect at all O_o

manga was stupidly expensive back in the early 90's, and tokyopop & Viz have previews.

http://shonenjump.viz.com/onlinemanga/

http://tokyopop.co.uk/manga/read_tokyopop_titles/browse

[edit]

INFACT, it was generally cheaper in the 90's, if a bit more time consuming, to learn basic french, hop the channel and buy french mangas, since france has possibly the biggest manga following outside of asia. i actually discovered manga in frace by stumbling across dragonball in the book aisle in an auchan in dordogne.


__________________

Last edited by xaerael (07 Aug 2010 - 16:35)
15 Aug 2010 - 15:2138742
I can see why they're wanting to take it down, because at the end of of the day, they may be losing out if people are reading manga online rather than buying the books and monthly magazines. But saying that, the recession has made it difficult money wise. Not everyone can spare £7-£10 on just a book. Because in the REAL WORLD a lot of people do struggle to feed themselves every week! So it can't be soooo bad reading it off the internet. It's like I tried to find Kuroshitsuji off of Onemanga, but they had taken it down which was rather annoying ¬_¬ Hardcore fangirl XD Can't be helped!


16 Aug 2010 - 19:1538787
May be of interest but:

http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/08/16/tokyopop-releases-hetalia-digitally-a-month-before-print/

Maybe a move foward towards a digtial system? Probably not, but they're clearly experimenting with the medium.


16 Aug 2010 - 20:1338791
I don't like reading manga online, but in some cases I have to, for instance I'm reading Fruits Basket, there are so many volumes when I go into waterstones who have a tiny selection I can't get certain volumes so reading it online is an option.

Expense is an issue, I mean I can read a whole manga book in an hour but then I have to get the next and that's another £6.99 gone, especially now that I'm reading bleach which has like 30+ volumes ._."

Maybe the artist/author whatever you want to call them could put manga online on their own site and charge for reading (but not too much XD)


16 Aug 2010 - 21:0238793
Quote Yes-My-Lord:
I don't like reading manga online, but in some cases I have to, for instance I'm reading Fruits Basket, there are so many volumes when I go into waterstones who have a tiny selection I can't get certain volumes so reading it online is an option.

Have you tried looking at Waterstones online store? Or just going up to the counter and saying "Hi, I'd like to order volumes x, y and z of the manga n. Thankyou." They're pretty good though you'll have to pay before it arrives.

Quote:
Expense is an issue, I mean I can read a whole manga book in an hour but then I have to get the next and that's another £6.99 gone, especially now that I'm reading bleach which has like 30+ volumes ._."


Cha, big issue for me too - my christmas list is gonna change to manga by the looks of things lolz. I'll just have a massive list of the ones I want - give each asker a different manga so I get no copies lol.

Quote:
Maybe the artist/author whatever you want to call them could put manga online on their own site and charge for reading (but not too much XD)


And I second this. Then they'll get the direct royalities and cut out the middle man ;p


__________________
Ayacon Plans
16 Aug 2010 - 21:4238795
Quote Yes-My-Lord:
I don't like reading manga online, but in some cases I have to, for instance I'm reading Fruits Basket, there are so many volumes when I go into waterstones who have a tiny selection I can't get certain volumes so reading it online is an option.

Expense is an issue, I mean I can read a whole manga book in an hour but then I have to get the next and that's another £6.99 gone, especially now that I'm reading bleach which has like 30+ volumes ._.

Have you tried looking on Amazon? I only ever tend to buy full-price manga if I'm at a convention and want something to read in the room/on the train home. All the other stuff I buy I get from Amazon's marketplace for a couple of quid at a time - a lot of the sellers on there are selling new copies, too.


__________________
Cara bell', cara mia bella, mia bambina, o ciel!
16 Aug 2010 - 22:1338798
Quote NixieThePixie:

Have you tried looking at Waterstones online store? Or just going up to the counter and saying "Hi, I'd like to order volumes x, y and z of the manga n. Thankyou." They're pretty good though you'll have to pay before it arrives.


the problems with ordering online is that shipping usualy costs a packet (im not sure what the prices at waterstones are like) and another problem is some ppl cant get to a store to ask about mangas, i know my local one is closing down in two weeks and the nearest one apart from that is about 2 hours away by car

can anyone recomend a place i can get manga and not have to pay a bomb in shipping.

also i know someone somewhere on here of watching the anime as a tester then go out and get the manga instead of reading a chap or two online, but what about the series' that are nothing like the mangas???? im using wolf's rain as an example, but i watched the series first and then saves up for months to get the two mangas and there totaly diffrent (the names and stuff are the same, but totaly diffrent events happen) i know its not the same with all anime....


__________________
Oh i am ninja, he is ninja, we are ninja to.
16 Aug 2010 - 22:2838799
Book Depository - free worldwide shipping. And lots of discounted books. Linky linky: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/category/2633/Graphic-Novels-Anime-and-Manga


17 Aug 2010 - 01:1438804
Quote Rwylin:
Quote NixieThePixie:

Have you tried looking at Waterstones online store? Or just going up to the counter and saying "Hi, I'd like to order volumes x, y and z of the manga n. Thankyou." They're pretty good though you'll have to pay before it arrives.


the problems with ordering online is that shipping usualy costs a packet (im not sure what the prices at waterstones are like) and another problem is some ppl cant get to a store to ask about mangas, i know my local one is closing down in two weeks and the nearest one apart from that is about 2 hours away by car

can anyone recomend a place i can get manga and not have to pay a bomb in shipping.

also i know someone somewhere on here of watching the anime as a tester then go out and get the manga instead of reading a chap or two online, but what about the series' that are nothing like the mangas???? im using wolf's rain as an example, but i watched the series first and then saves up for months to get the two mangas and there totaly diffrent (the names and stuff are the same, but totaly diffrent events happen) i know its not the same with all anime....


High delivery cost is a myth. Shipping is free at Waterstones, The Book Depository and most of Amazon with no minimum spend required. All you need to do is read their websites to find out.


17 Aug 2010 - 11:0538810
online
I fell onto this thread by accident, but feel inspired to put in my twopennyworth.
I read scanlations online, and buy the books as well. The scan. sites invariably promote buying the books, to support the mangaka, and often take down the scan, when it gets properly published.
We have a culture clash here, in Japan manga are cheap to the point of throwaway, a succesfull series then gets Tankaboned, published in a higher quality format for the fan to collect. Doujin are tolerated and even encouraged as a pool of talent for the next generation.
Here we get only the expensive version, you have to be a fan already to want to pay the price. A doujin of a western comic will land you in court, sued over copyright.
Western publishers want to have their cake and eat it, to protect their profits from a market largely driven by internet interest, they object to the internet access. Go figure, this is the same financial wisdom that took our money, gambled it on shaky stocks, recieved our money to cover "their" losses, and now punishes us all in the name of regaining financial stability.
Pardon the rant, greed is one thing, stupid greed is another.


__________________
Joshua
Login to reply  Page: « < 2 of 3 > »