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28 Jul 2010 - 10:0937243
someone earlier mentioned a 'favorites' button. I quite like that idea, that way I can create my very own favorites collection (al la DA) which I could show my friends, maybe that person gets a notification, maybe they don't. For me it would just be a nice way to compile a list of costumes I liked.


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28 Jul 2010 - 10:1037244
bah! double post! sorry.


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Last edited by GunstarVixen (28 Jul 2010 - 10:11)
28 Jul 2010 - 10:1437245
In the aim of wanting to highlight unknown gems, wouldn't a showcase system be better?
It would get rid of the problem of popularity, and would be a more effective way of highlighting a costume that deserves a bit more recognition.

I understand this would be copying coscom but the star system would be copying cure! If there was a showcased costume every week say? Pick out someone thats done a really fantastic all round job, not only made a fantastic costume but also captured that essence of the character?

It wouldn't be in any competitive way, just a costume thats highlighted every week?


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28 Jul 2010 - 10:3137246
Quote GunstarVixen:
someone earlier mentioned a 'favorites' button. I quite like that idea, that way I can create my very own favorites collection (al la DA) which I could show my friends, maybe that person gets a notification, maybe they don't. For me it would just be a nice way to compile a list of costumes I liked.


I think the new "watch list" has that function.

http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/costume/watchlist


28 Jul 2010 - 10:3237247
Quote Sands:
In the aim of wanting to highlight unknown gems, wouldn't a showcase system be better?
It would get rid of the problem of popularity, and would be a more effective way of highlighting a costume that deserves a bit more recognition.

I understand this would be copying coscom but the star system would be copying cure! If there was a showcased costume every week say? Pick out someone thats done a really fantastic all round job, not only made a fantastic costume but also captured that essence of the character?

It wouldn't be in any competitive way, just a costume thats highlighted every week?


i agree with laura on this one, because if you were showcased youd feel so proud of yourself, and everyone would be proud of ya too and would really appreciate your costume, its certanly a motivating thought on my part, i think it sounds exciting, and it gives people a bit more MMMPHHHH to try a little harder if they already arnt! the idea certanly works on me.


28 Jul 2010 - 10:4437248
Quote Sands:
In the aim of wanting to highlight unknown gems, wouldn't a showcase system be better?
It would get rid of the problem of popularity, and would be a more effective way of highlighting a costume that deserves a bit more recognition.

I understand this would be copying coscom but the star system would be copying cure! If there was a showcased costume every week say? Pick out someone thats done a really fantastic all round job, not only made a fantastic costume but also captured that essence of the character?

It wouldn't be in any competitive way, just a costume thats highlighted every week?


This sounds pretty cool. Just wondering how it'd work in practice, with 20,000 costumes already on the site. The admins would know some of the gems, but it seems like a huge ask of the 5 of them, especially if we want to unearth the old gems.


28 Jul 2010 - 10:5037249
i suppose ud just have to start it from as soon as it kicks in, so soon as someone does an awsome costume, start from that one and go from there i guess


28 Jul 2010 - 11:2737250
This is a very interesting topic which I'm finding hard to answer but I do agree on some comments made here.

Quote:

I think the point is to give recognition where it is due. I always get really upset when I discover a relatively unknown, yet amazing cosplayer only has 2 comments on their complex and gorgeous costume, but someone in an ebayed Kingdom Hearts jacket has 40+ comments. To be fair, I have clicked on a few obscure, gorgeous things and been surprised to find that they had been given appropriate recognition with a good 30-40 comments... But I remember far more clearly the several times I've been in awe with a photo and then commented in shock "WHERE ARE ALL THE COMMENTS??" XD


This is what I tend to find as well - I think omg look at that detail and yet all that's left is few comments. I think my personal reasons for the amount of low comments sometimes are the following -
1.I tend to find that because this site is mainly aimed for cosplayers in the UK, not much recognition goes to those who are from abroad and sometimes have the most amazing costume.
2. I find that this site can be a bit biased with their comments at times. Something else that was mentioned before, people tend to get more comments when those comments are submitted by friends. That's fair enough for the support but it's true that it doesn't bring about much criticism as you'd feel bad to leave a 'harsh' comment incase you'd upset or offend them.
3. The popularity of the character sways this decision too. Generally I tend to find that some people get more comments if it's a character everyone knows (which is understandable so you can compare how well someone has pulled off that character) even if the outfit wasn't made by them - It tends to upset me a little when someone has worked soo hard on one outfit making it from scratch and hardly get much comments in return whilst someone whose custom brought their outfit get loads!

I'm soo sorry bout my rambling here but this topic has got me to really think about whether this rating system is a good idea. I agree with what's been said with some hidden 'gem' cosplayers not gaining much recognition over the site but at the same time, I do agree that this system could be abused to boost someone else's popularity and the fact some people could go really nasty with their comments. Everyone has different levels of experience and it's not fair to 'lay in' on someone who's only been cosplaying for about a year as opposed to someone whos done it for 4 years for example. It's easy to over read experience over 'quality' on the cosplay. In another words, its hard to judge using this rating system and I do agree it should perhaps be an optional thing. Like people can choose which costume they want feed back on.


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28 Jul 2010 - 11:5237252
Quote lolita-cupcake08:

1.I tend to find that because this site is mainly aimed for cosplayers in the UK, not much recognition goes to those who are from abroad and sometimes have the most amazing costume.


The thing is, this site was made to fill the gap FOR the UK. Cosplay Island was intended as a cosplay site for UK cosplayers, it says as much on the front page. There are a few people who arent from the UK who have signed up so it's not like they are saying "no outsiders" just that it's a majority.
I seem to remember it originaly being a replacement for cosplayUK way back.

I really dont agree with the statement that, that's a reason for there not being many comments. It is true that alot of say, french and US cosplayers have some amazing costumes but look at it this way.

The US is far bigger than the UK, this means that their ratio of fantastic, good, medium and so on cosplays are going to be higher than the UK due to the sheer volum of cosplayers in the US compared to the UK.

The UK boasts alot of fantastic costumes and cosplayers too it's just, the UK is far smaller in comparison and we alot of the time, have to import certain things for it to be of a high standard.

I'll put my penny thought in on this topic.

I am in the agreement with the people here who think a ranking system is not worth the hastle. If we were all frank and honest about the comments we leave then some people will get branded as elitist.

Some of you may remember the "cosplay pet peeves" thread, alot of people couldn't deal with the fact that some of us were talking about what bugs us about cosplay. If they can't deal with that, how do you expect them to deal with a proper piece of constructive critisism.

Iv'e had it before where someones come to me and said "Please Lu, give me your honest opinion on this?" and I've been completly honest with them and it's given me greif because they only wanted to hear what was good about it. So you could say that someone can mark a costume for critisism, but that doesnt automaticly mean that the person will accept it and wont get offended if you say
"well to be honest, your wig could use some work, this is what I'd suggest"

Like Delusional has already stated. There is a section on the forums where you can post a link to one of your costumes and say "give me some crits on this please" but no one really has done so thus far, and like she has already said. If people wont use that for it, then why should the mods spend time developing and maintaining something that may not be used? or will be abused and will very likley just increase their workload.

They are very very busy people, this isn't their day job.

For a proper constructive critisism system to work you first need to understand exactly WHAT constructive crtisism actually is. Most people have no idea how to structure their crits and think that it's all about the bad and none of the good. It's an all round comment system, you list the things you love and admire and you also state the things you think have room for improvement.

Saying that, some people just can't take critisism and THOSE are the people we are afraid of upsetting.

If I'm completly honest as well, it also boils down to steryotypes and age. There are alot of us who really dont give two ticks about comments and popularity but who put a great deal of time, effort and detail into their cosplays *raises hand*

There are alot of people though who seem to think comments are like gold and the more you have the better off you are or the more popular you are. I really don't mean to seem like a dick, but honestly. There are alot of young people here and alot of really overly sensetive and competative people here and the last thing you want is to upset someone with a crit about their costume and then get comment mobbed by about 20 others.

The one rule you really MUST remember when asking for "constructive critisism" or "tell me what you think" is that you have to be able to take critisism in the first place. Don't ask for it if you don't want it.

Long reply is long and messy....and has bad spelling....I wish we had a spell check...because I'm too lazy to copy it into word!


28 Jul 2010 - 12:0537253
Quote:

The thing is, this site was made to fill the gap FOR the UK. Cosplay Island was intended as a cosplay site for UK cosplayers, it says as much on the front page. There are a few people who arent from the UK who have signed up so it's not like they are saying "no outsiders" just that it's a majority. I seem to remember it originaly being a replacement for cosplayUK way back.
I really dont agree with the statement that, that's a reason for there not being many comments. It is true that alot of say, french and US cosplayers have some amazing costumes but look at it this way.
The US is far bigger than the UK, this means that their ratio of fantastic, good, medium and so on cosplays are going to be higher than the UK due to the sheer volum of cosplayers in the US compared to the UK.
The UK boasts alot of fantastic costumes and cosplayers too it's just, the UK is far smaller in comparison and we alot of the time, have to import certain things for it to be of a high standard.


That also is true thinking about it that way. I do agree. I know that doesn't mean 'no outsiders'; - I was really curious when I kept seeing that connection round this site. That was one of the first things that came into my head. It does make sense.


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28 Jul 2010 - 12:0937254
Quote Pez:

This sounds pretty cool. Just wondering how it'd work in practice, with 20,000 costumes already on the site. The admins would know some of the gems, but it seems like a huge ask of the 5 of them, especially if we want to unearth the old gems.


Well on coscom they have A LOT more costumes on there to filter through, I think they have a system that they note down costumes they may see develop over time that looking exciting, or ones they may notice as cons, so they often have a backlog of costumes they want to highlight.
There could also be a members suggestion so its not just Kat and Amy having to pick one by themselves all the time.

As reiss said it might be quite inspiring for everyone to want to push their costume a little bit further so they have a goal to reach, and feel really proud of at the end if they got showcased!


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28 Jul 2010 - 12:2437255
Quote Sands:
In the aim of wanting to highlight unknown gems, wouldn't a showcase system be better?
It would get rid of the problem of popularity, and would be a more effective way of highlighting a costume that deserves a bit more recognition.

I understand this would be copying coscom but the star system would be copying cure! If there was a showcased costume every week say? Pick out someone thats done a really fantastic all round job, not only made a fantastic costume but also captured that essence of the character?

It wouldn't be in any competitive way, just a costume thats highlighted every week?

If it could be implemented in the right way I think this is actually a pretty good idea! ^^ As Pez mentioned though it would be a massive amount of work for the small amount of staff! D:

Quote Lulu Rose:
[insert very long post quote here >.>]

Very true, it does seem that a lot of people don't understand constructive criticism.

I was going to suggest anyways that if the optional rating system was added there would be a little header before posting just reminding those who don't know that if they are going to post feedback they must write at least one nice thing and one bad thing (maybe in seperate text boxes?), that way whatever they post is still going to balance out. And anyone who doesn't fill out both fields respectably doesn't get their comment posted.

But really, the operative word in this whole thing is "optional". I would assume that anyone who had marked their cosplay down as "requesting feedback/concrit" was well aware that they might get at least a couple of comments about how to improve! That's kind of the point.


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28 Jul 2010 - 13:5337263
Quote Sands:
Quote Pez:

This sounds pretty cool. Just wondering how it'd work in practice, with 20,000 costumes already on the site. The admins would know some of the gems, but it seems like a huge ask of the 5 of them, especially if we want to unearth the old gems.


Well on coscom they have A LOT more costumes on there to filter through, I think they have a system that they note down costumes they may see develop over time that looking exciting, or ones they may notice as cons, so they often have a backlog of costumes they want to highlight.
There could also be a members suggestion so its not just Kat and Amy having to pick one by themselves all the time.

As reiss said it might be quite inspiring for everyone to want to push their costume a little bit further so they have a goal to reach, and feel really proud of at the end if they got showcased!


I think Sands' idea about creating a Costume Showcase is a great idea! Also, so the poor admins don't have to spend their entire life looking through nearly 10,000 costumes, we could have a feature on each costume page that you click (kind of like a Facebook 'Like' button) that says "Recommend for Cosplay Showcase". The cosplayer isn't informed that their costume is being recommended, but a notification is sent to the mods so they can look at the costume and decide if they want to showcase it or not.

That way, when I stumble across a gorgeous, 0-comment costume again, I can just click "Recommend" and it might get showcased and finally get the recognition it deserves

:9 I don't forsee any drama or problems with this... what does everyone think?


28 Jul 2010 - 14:3837271
As a related point I'd like to make; I personally will not comment on a costume that is photos only, no matter how awesome it looks. I want to know a bit about the creators views on the costume; the personality behind it, why they made it, what they enjoyed, anything other than a voice-less photo album. For all I know the bit of it I want to say I was impressed by wasn't even their work.

This isn't a frequent occurance by far, but I have turned away from costumes I was excited about a few times because of this. It's a social site after all.


28 Jul 2010 - 14:4437272
Quote Amy-Lou:
As a related point I'd like to make; I personally will not comment on a costume that is photos only, no matter how awesome it looks. I want to know a bit about the creators views on the costume; the personality behind it, why they made it, what they enjoyed, anything other than a voice-less photo album.


That's really interesting. :O Ever since the costume pages were changed to the tabbed style, I've felt that less people have been filling out the information page because less people can be bothered to click on the tab to read it now.

I try to chat about my costumes in the info box, but I always find it hard to think of what to say, besides just reiterating what I would say on every costume "I watched the series, I loved the character, this costume was cute, I made it!". I've started writing a bit more since the Journals feature was created, though!


28 Jul 2010 - 15:3037275
Quote Amy-Lou:
As a related point I'd like to make; I personally will not comment on a costume that is photos only


this is actually meant to be a requirement on the coscom system, on their guidelines for costume showcase's, there must be a description and general blurb stating why they chose this costume, what the enjoyed about it, how it was made etc...

They usually don't put that into practise very often, but that was an original rule.


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28 Jul 2010 - 15:4037276
Quote Amy-Lou:
As a related point I'd like to make; I personally will not comment on a costume that is photos only, no matter how awesome it looks. I want to know a bit about the creators views on the costume; the personality behind it, why they made it, what they enjoyed, anything other than a voice-less photo album. For all I know the bit of it I want to say I was impressed by wasn't even their work.

This isn't a frequent occurance by far, but I have turned away from costumes I was excited about a few times because of this. It's a social site after all.


I find pure photos a bit of a turn-off as well, it makes it pretty hard to comment on any aspect of it. But if there is at least a sentence or two somewhere I'm okay. Knowing people who are very good at doing things but completely useless at describing how they do it changed my view on things quite a bit. And then there are those who think talking about how they've done something is all very self-indulgent and embarrassing (their words not mine), and those who'd rather be working on their next project, etc etc.

Whether how they feel is "right" or not, that's how they feel and they can't help it. Even on social sites there are those who aren't very good at the social aspects, I guess.


28 Jul 2010 - 19:0537295
Quote Sands:
In the aim of wanting to highlight unknown gems, wouldn't a showcase system be better?
It would get rid of the problem of popularity, and would be a more effective way of highlighting a costume that deserves a bit more recognition.


Agreeing with Laura. This is a much better idea!

Also if people are worrying about how to find the best costumes then maybe people could email suggestions.



Last edited by Ashe (28 Jul 2010 - 19:10)
28 Jul 2010 - 19:1037296
I agree that a showcase would definitely be better than a rating system.


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28 Jul 2010 - 23:0137323
Showcasing sounds like a good idea, but it would have to be an anonymous system to work. If someone puts their costume up for being showcased to the mods and it never happens they're likely to get butthurt over it.

I like the idea of a system where other users recommend costumes but no one knows how many recommendations you actually need to get featured or how many they actually have.

Though I must say good luck to the mods for programming that. You just updated the site and already we want more!

-Tab


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29 Jul 2010 - 00:0337329
i think it needs serious thought to say the least.

there's issues with both, i'll break them down as best i can...

star system:

1) can be zerg-voted by friends (you give me 5 star ego massage, i give you 5 star ego massage?)

2) can be "assassinated" by detractors (as sad as it sounds, i'm hearing the term "cosplay enemy" far too often these days)

3) can still be massively overlooked

"click to vote" system:

1) can be friend zerged just like the star system

2) can be proxy-server zerged by attention ho's

3) can still be massively overlooked

to be honest, as much as i love the idea, without some serious system engineering and moderation, it could be bad. i think leaving it anonymously to the community would lead to disaster.

so how about this?

first off, let's choose a number of costumes that get showcased a month. for argument's sake, let's say 5.

a group of high-active people (eg, people like sephirayne, who post frequently on a great number of different user's costumes) are formed (i'd say 10-12 to give a broad net) those people have a secondary account that they use the watch list to collect candidates for monthly showcasing (and troll people on the forum with. JOKING DON'T SHOOT ME! xD). at a set date during the month, each member of the group chose 5 of the costumes they have spotted. this is then compared with the other group member's choices. if there is a number of costumes that have been "voted" for by numerous group members, those costumes get showcased (most popular, decending). if there's no clear "favorites", then... i dunno! the group would have to choose between them. i guess even when there is a clear "top 5", if one of the group unearths a particular gem and the others agree, that costume can be swapped in.

ofcourse, all unshowcased costumes would be viable for re-submission by group members, but ones that have already been showcased are not re-submittable (i think i just broke english). group members can be submitted by other group members, but ofcourse, members can't vote for their own costumes.

alternatively, i guess this method could somehow be extended to the users in a public vote. maybe each user can nominate 1 costume they have seen that deserves special attention (can't nominate themselves). each costume is then listed and assigned a number as they are nominated. then in a second round, each user is allowed to vote for 3 costumes that have been nominated. all voting and nominating users would have to be active with at least one complete, or in progress costume in their gallery.

i'd strongly say that the latter would have to be done publicly to avoid attention seekers "cheating" the system. also, the latter runs the risk of less than special costumes being zerg voted because of "my favorite series" reasoning.

long post was long. and i wrote it tired. hope it's helpful though!

[EDIT!]

and i think it should be strictly limited to COMPLETE costumes.


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Last edited by xaerael (29 Jul 2010 - 00:08)
29 Jul 2010 - 11:1937347
If there was a showcase system I think it should be done the exact same way as coscom, no voting!

voting in any sense just causes problems. On coscom the admins just chose a costume every week or so they feel deserves a showcase! simple. People can send in recommendations and suggest costumes they think should be showcased, but its up to the people who run the site to chose one.

Anything other than that gets too complicated, of course people will bitch and moan that their costume isn't being showcased or whatever, but your going to get that with everything in life really!


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29 Jul 2010 - 11:5137350
I'm not on here often enough to really comment but i really like the showcase idea

However, I think it could be a good idea if as well as just the mods choosing a showcase costume, members could suggest one too, similar to Daily Deviations on DevArt.
Or once a month, a member gets to choose who they think should be showcased (admins would get the final say to stop people just choosing their friends) and it would also help to eliminate that age old "BAWWW" of people saying that only people who are 'in the inner cool circle' get chosen.

A rating system would be good but it would be too easily abused and spammed by friends; it seriously irks me when people fave stuff just because they're your friend as it doesn't give you a real indication on whether they actually like it because it's good or because they feel obliged to.... (i have a friend who does this on dA; i know no matter what i submit i'll get at least 1 fave as she faves EVERYTHING! Including desktop screenshots, stuff i've forgotten to move to scraps.....)


29 Jul 2010 - 12:0637352
Quote Rui:
I'm not on here often enough to really comment but i really like the showcase idea

However, I think it could be a good idea if as well as just the mods choosing a showcase costume, members could suggest one too, similar to Daily Deviations on DevArt.
Or once a month, a member gets to choose who they think should be showcased (admins would get the final say to stop people just choosing their friends) and it would also help to eliminate that age old "BAWWW" of people saying that only people who are 'in the inner cool circle' get chosen.
)


Xaerael pretty much already said that.

The showcase idea is good, but I agree with Tab on the butthurt side. Xae makes some good points, I don't know though, it sounds like a huge undertaking for the mods and whoever gets put into the "group" of sort of sub mods?.

Perhaps the ides Sands mentioned is the most hasstle free way. Much like coscom, the mods have the vote, people can suggest but that doesnt mean what was suggested by 20 people will neccesarily get picked.

I also think that if this system was put in place that the mods would be able to tell straight away if a costume is just being reccomended because that person has about a million little friends who have been told "vote vote vote!"
So it'd likley just be quality costumes which have had a good amount of effort put in and such, which is what we want really and I trust the mods 100% for this!


29 Jul 2010 - 14:0637357
Sands' idea seems good as if there are no set rules except "Mods choose the costume" then people can't abuse the system over technicalities like "I got lots of votes!".

The only flaw is that is that mods are not infallible beings but humans, so it is possible that mods will choose people they know. I'm sure there will be a lot of pressure on them too from their friends to be picked, and I worry about possible falling outs if they don't put them up there.

Making sure there are several mods doing the recommendation may combat this. That way if a friend is pushing for themselves to be picked the mod can say "oh, the other mods selected this person instead."

-Tab


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