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27 Jul 2010 - 20:1037161
5 Star Rating System
Okay, hear me out before immediately rejecting this idea! I doubt this feature will be implemented, I'm really just curious about people's opinions on this sort of thing.

I think it would be really nice if we could have a Rating system on Cosplay Island, either for individual cosplayers or individual costumes.

There are so many hidden gem cosplayers on this site that I never discover, because they maybe only have a small handful of costumes they've worked particularly hard on. On the other hand, I constantly see certain cosplayers popping up on the front page all the time because they upload loads of costumes that they've rushed through just to increase their Completed Costume number.

I feel that if we had a Rating system, the cosplayers who only have a few, really nice costumes, would get the recognition they deserve. Also all cosplayers can receive valuable, anonymous and honest feedback on their construction, wigs, posing, prop and make-up skills, etc. This way they can strive to improve their costumes to try to increase their rating. If we can search for cosplayers by Star Rating, then we can find those rare gems so much easier- and we can also find those who are in need of advice!

Cure, the popular Japanese cosplay website has a Star system:

Categories are: Costume and Props, Hand/Home-made, Identifying with the Character, Originality, "Pheromone" (Attractiveness)

On Cure, you set each star regarding what aspects of your costumes that you care about the most. But I feel that it would be more valuable if others could rate you, since I think a lot of the time we're rather harsh on ourselves, and we could find out that people really love our wig or posing skills!

Of course I can already expect what kind of responses this will get... "what if people rate me poorly?"- I guess if you can switch off the ability to be rated or to see your rating (deviantart allows you to turn off the ability to see your page views, so I'm kind of thinking along the same vein as that) then that might satisfy people. Also, if certain people are being unfairly harsh and rating every costume they see as 1 star, their rating abilities could be switched off or temporarily disabled by the staff.

Anyway... what do you guys think?



Last edited by Yuka (27 Jul 2010 - 21:02)
27 Jul 2010 - 20:1837163
I like the idea of getting honest feedback. I think that despite this site being a really nice community and generally having no drama between the members, you hardly seem to get people critiquing your progress or overall costume. It would be a really nice idea to get this.

As well as people having the initial thoughts of people rating them poorly, I feel it could also turn into a popularity contest. Not necessarily for every member, but I feel that there could be someone out there who may ask people to give them good ratings to get up in the top list when their costume may have flaws or isn't considered a brilliant costumes by the members of the site.

Also, people may be a target of bullying with this system. We've had a good few trolls on this site and any other trolls in the future may take advantage of the rating system to bring down costumes of members they're targeting, whether they have a good costume or not.

(I'm really sorry if that sounds a little harsh by the way. I'm not trying to sound mean, just a little hard to word it XD)



Last edited by Mungojerrie (27 Jul 2010 - 20:20)
27 Jul 2010 - 20:1937164
See im a little half hearted with this idea. The immediate thought thought of this was "Ohhh what a good idea".

And it is true that there are a few really nice cosplays around that arent as recognised as others. But introducing a 5 star system would start competition between other cosplayers like how people seem to get the idea of more comments = more attention scheme.

I like the idea, im just afraid that people will see it in the wrong light and use it for their own advantage, ya kno?


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27 Jul 2010 - 20:2037165
Seems like an interesting idea to me ^^

I suppose there's also still the problem that a lot of the people you mentioned in your post (who seems to "rush cosplays to build up their costume count" ) are also the same people to seem to have a very high comment count (since they seem to answer every comment and thus double the count). So those people end up being considered "popular", for some reason, just because they have a higher comment count. I can kind of anticipate them getting a very high rating just from friends and stuff regardless of how good/bad the cosplay actually is.
I mean, I see that being an obstacle for anyone with friends on CI really since it's natural to want your friends to succeed!
I think that would be my main niggle with it though, the fact that it could turn into more of a competition rather than it's original purpose, which would be a shame.

Would be really nice to finally get honest feedback though :/ especially since my "concrit check box" idea got turned down...

I really like that the sets of stars could stand for different things though, like props/wigs/poses/costume ^^ and I'm guessing that would contribute to an overall star rating as well (a bit like eBay feedback/ratings)?

How about also a set of stars for accuracy?



I'd be interested to see what people make of this actually ^^


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Last edited by Chibi (27 Jul 2010 - 20:23)
27 Jul 2010 - 20:2237166
I think it's a nice idea though I would object to Attractiveness being rated. I think that's the one most likely to offend/hurt people.

Of course it's also a system that can be abused in the same way the 'Costumes Completed' is. For those of us that don't care how many costumes we've done, the ratings thing won't be too much of an issue. But people who are already striving to have lots of completed costumes regardless of quality will simply use the ratings in the same way.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it's a thin line between the two things that needs to be considered very carefully. CosIsland is pretty much drama free most of the time and I'd like it to stay that way. If it means I miss out on some fantastic gems without some serious searching it's a reasonable price to pay.


27 Jul 2010 - 20:3237168
Quote Mungojerrie:
I think that despite this site being a really nice community and generally having no drama between the members, you hardly seem to get people critiquing your progress or overall costume.

This is exactly what I mean. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but sometimes I feel that Cosplay Island is almost too nice- people are afraid to suggest improvements in case they hurt someone's feelings! Which is nice, I'd rather have people like that than people who will jump down people's throats if they see a loose thread or a fly-away hair on a wig -_-;;

Quote Mungojerrie:
I feel it could also turn into a popularity contest. Not necessarily for every member, but I feel that there could be someone out there who may ask people to give them good ratings to get up in the top list when their costume may have flaws or isn't considered a brilliant costumes by the members of the site.

Yeah, this was one of my main concerns as well. Perhaps to avoid this, your friends couldn't rate your costumes and only strangers could?

Quote Mungojerrie:
We've had a good few trolls on this site and any other trolls in the future may take advantage of the rating system to bring down costumes of members they're targeting, whether they have a good costume or not.

Yeah, this is why I suggested "turning off" the rating ability for problem raters. Or, turn off the anonymity of the system so everyone can see if you're being unfairly harsh on costumes- that way trolls will think twice before exposing themselves for giving people low ratings?


Quote perfectly_purple:
I would object to Attractiveness being rated. I think that's the one most likely to offend/hurt people.

Oh, I agree completely! I'm surprised that Cure has such a frank star system (especially one that you set yourself) and I don't think that Cosplay Island should use that if they were to implement this system. My suggested categories would be:

Wig Styling
Make-Up
Costume Construction
Props
Posing
Accuracy (as suggested by Chibi)



Last edited by Yuka (27 Jul 2010 - 20:34)
27 Jul 2010 - 20:4837172
If this was to happen I think it should most definately be an optional thing. It may well be used for the purposes of finding good cosplayers but it can hurt or offend people who just wanted to have fun with costumes be they good or bad. It could become competitive and I realise that is probably not the intention but the people already making stupid costumes to bump up their costumes completed would most likely try to find other ways to bump up their ratings (friends would vote high for friends and vote low for people who truly deserve it).

I really do not want to have my costumes rated as I don't take cosplay seriously enough to let my confidence be shot because someone didn't like my costume from 2004. It's fun for me and that is absolutely ALL it is.

I think it could work and it's a good idea but it's a good idea I don't want to happen here. Sorry. I like just displaying my costumes and nothing else. I also like the pleasant and drama-free Cosplay Island and I just think this would damage that CI a lot.

Edit: Also, I agree there isn't much critiquing here but I think that's what I like about it. If I want critique on my costume there are plenty of forums or sites I can ask for it.

And good grief what kind of insane site would rate a person's attractiveness. That's awful! I know you're not suggesting we have that but it's terrible a cosplay site would have that :/

Edit the 2nd: Sorry I'm doing a lot of editing. I think a better system would be something like Youtube's "thumbs up" or Facebooks "like". Or even just the ability to favourite a costume.



Last edited by Ashe (27 Jul 2010 - 20:55)
27 Jul 2010 - 20:5637175
Very good points, Eli!

My friend Bry just sent me some suggestions via twitter.

Quote:
interesting idea. Was reading that communities that allow positive promotion tend to prosper (eg. Facebook's 'Like' system)... maybe even something like a 'thumbs up' for certain aspects, rather than a low>high rating. That way, no-one's put out.


This would be a more simple system, and there are no ways to negatively rate things which would solve a lot of concerns. But I think this would just end up being used in the same way that "Comments = Popularity" is being used right now.

Man, this is such a tricky topic. I've been reluctant to bring it up for ages because I knew a lot of people would object, but boredom calls for testing the waters I guess


Quote Ashe:
And good grief what kind of insane site would rate a person's attractiveness. That's awful! I know you're not suggesting we have that but it's terrible a cosplay site would have that :/

I know right? To be fair, the category is actually labeled "Pheromones", but I can't think for the life of me what that would mean besides attractiveness :S ...might as well just rename it "Self Esteem" since you set the stars yourself for that category!



Last edited by Yuka (27 Jul 2010 - 20:59)
27 Jul 2010 - 21:1737180
Quote Ashe:
If this was to happen I think it should most definately be an optional thing. It may well be used for the purposes of finding good cosplayers but it can hurt or offend people who just wanted to have fun with costumes be they good or bad. It could become competitive and I realise that is probably not the intention but the people already making stupid costumes to bump up their costumes completed would most likely try to find other ways to bump up their ratings (friends would vote high for friends and vote low for people who truly deserve it).

I really do not want to have my costumes rated as I don't take cosplay seriously enough to let my confidence be shot because someone didn't like my costume from 2004. It's fun for me and that is absolutely ALL it is.

I think it could work and it's a good idea but it's a good idea I don't want to happen here. Sorry. I like just displaying my costumes and nothing else. I also like the pleasant and drama-free Cosplay Island and I just think this would damage that CI a lot.

Also, I agree there isn't much critiquing here but I think that's what I like about it. If I want critique on my costume there are plenty of forums or sites I can ask for it.

That's fair enough, but you also have to realise that there are more than a few other people that really do want constructive feedback. For some it's just a hobby and nothing more, for some others it could be a lifestyle, a job, a course, or what-have-you and they would like to be better at it.
For instance, I take commissions, therefore I would like to receive feedback sometimes so I can try and keep a steady level of work and improve to give the best quality work that I can.

As you mentioned, if this were to happen it would have to be optional for each person and costume, and I completely agree with that. There are a few of my older costumes that I would rather people didn't react to, and of course there are the people who don't care about getting feedback at all. So it would be purely beneficial to the people who are looking for constructive criticism as they could actually get what they are after.

Quote Yuka:
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but sometimes I feel that Cosplay Island is almost too nice- people are afraid to suggest improvements in case they hurt someone's feelings!

This! I know at the end of the day people cosplay for fun, but I do tend to feel like everything here is a bit too saccharine :/ I know not everyone else does, but I like constructive criticism, it helps me get better, that's what I want. But people are always too nice about it, how is anyone (and by "anyone" I mean, the people who want it) supposed to improve if no one will give them honest feedback?

I think this is a really good way to introduce an "honest feedback" system, provided it can be implemented in the right way!


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27 Jul 2010 - 21:2937182
Back to someones previous comment regarding CI being mostly drama-free: rating or high favourite count type systems tend to encourage drama. To make an extreme negative example if ratings weren't annoymous; people can take offense and given how clique-y the convention scene can be, that may find the rater suddenly being group spammed down by 10-30 people.

As for the lack of critiquing or constructive feedback on this site - people need to understand if they ask for it they may hear things they don't neccessarily want to hear. Its often also something people don't want to offer others for fear of appearing overbearing or nasty - i've seen it plenty of times on other forums where its spun out of control as the person asking for crit and/or their friends (or even someone completely unrelated to the cosplayer!) takes it personally and goes on the offensive for getting what they asked for.

Its a tricky one certainly, and i suspect this is why we don't have rating type systems here as features



Last edited by Junta (27 Jul 2010 - 21:35)
27 Jul 2010 - 21:3937187
Quote Chibi:

That's fair enough, but you also have to realise that there are more than a few other people that really do want constructive feedback. For some it's just a hobby and nothing more, for some others it could be a lifestyle, a job, a course, or what-have-you and they would like to be better at it.
For instance, I take commissions, therefore I would like to receive feedback sometimes so I can try and keep a steady level of work and improve to give the best quality work that I can.

As you mentioned, if this were to happen it would have to be optional for each person and costume, and I completely agree with that. There are a few of my older costumes that I would rather people didn't react to, and of course there are the people who don't care about getting feedback at all. So it would be purely beneficial to the people who are looking for constructive criticism as they could actually get what they are after.


I do understand that as I have many friends who take it very seriously and a couple who do it for a living but there are so many forums you can go to to ask for feedback on costumes. There are groups on Flickr and on Deviantart when you post a photo of your costume you can request critique and on the Cosplay.com forums there is a specific forum for it. I'm sure if you specifically wanted to know how people on Cosplay Island felt about your costume you could post a thread requesting feedback here. Maybe even post something on your costume info page saying "please feel free to critique".

Feedback is VERY easy to find if you just ask for it which is why I think we just don't need a ratings system here at all.

I don't think it's a problem that people here are too nice, I think it's a welcome break.



Last edited by Ashe (27 Jul 2010 - 21:40)
27 Jul 2010 - 21:4037189
Maybe if people are looking to improve there should be a little icon or something that flags up a costume as one that welcomes criticism like a little face or something. That way when people comment they can see the icon and know they can be a little more constructive in what comments they leave. And those that don't have the icon (those just doing it for fun/etc) can keep having fun comments. Not to say criticism can't be accompanied by fun comments!



Last edited by perfectly_purple (27 Jul 2010 - 21:43)
27 Jul 2010 - 21:4837191
Quote perfectly_purple:
Maybe if people are looking to improve there should be a little icon or something that flags up a costume as one that welcomes criticism like a little face or something. That way when people comment they can see the icon and know they can be a little more constructive in what comments they leave. And those that don't have the icon (those just doing it for fun/etc) can keep having fun comments. Not to say criticism can't be accompanied by fun comments!

See this is the sort of thing I suggested a month or two ago, with a check box for concrit that would show the person had requested feedback for that particular costume, but the idea pretty much got turned down D:

In fact, I seem to remember you being against it at the time! XD

Which is a shame, coz I thought it could work pretty well


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Last edited by Chibi (27 Jul 2010 - 21:49)
27 Jul 2010 - 21:5837192
Okay right I let a similar thread to this go on for a while last time, I'm sticking my oar in on this one (This isn't a yay/nay - just provoking a bit more thought & discussion into the issue for now!)

Yuka, you raised two good things really in this - one that you want to be able to find good costumes that you think are hidden or haven't gotten enough attention, and two that it would be good to get more honest feedback for the people who want it.

1. Rating/favourites. Okay, so saying we add a rating or favourite system so people can mark the costumes they like. So how would other people on the site find these costumes? Would it be by the rating they were given? Have a 'top ten' rated costume list or so? Aside from the potential arguing over who gets 'number one' as an example, this is a kind of system that is so easily abused for the sake of popularity. If your concern is the same people always appearing on the front page and getting attention, surely they are the ones that would be noticed more and therefore get 'favourited' more often? How could this help finding the hidden costumes?

I understand the idea behind it - I just cant think of any way to handle this without it firstly becoming a popularity contest, and secondly taken advantage of. Please do chuck ideas over for this, but we will definitely without question avoid any kind of 'ranking' on the site

2. Critique Okay, now on to the critique. There was a very long forum post about this a little while back, and the general consensus (as in this thread too!) was that not everyone wants it. Not everyone wants people to pick apart a quick joke costume they did.
It's always a very touchy subject, but I think if you wish to receive constructive crit then you need to ask for it. Otherwise yes, we are all very British and generally very reserved! That's why we opened a forum for "costume help and critique" - the critique bit being the main word there! To this date, I don't think anyone has posted their costume and asked for critique?

This is somewhere very open, where people can be honest. If people won't even use a forum for it, then we're very reluctant to spend time developing a part of the site that we're not convinced will be used at all!

(As I said at the start this isn't a yay/nay, just something I think needs a lot more discussion/thinking about)


27 Jul 2010 - 22:1637195
Darn! pipped to the post by Delusional concerning critique, but I had to check through the forum section to see if was being used.


27 Jul 2010 - 22:2937201
Quote Delusional:

1. Rating/favourites. -snip-If your concern is the same people always appearing on the front page and getting attention, surely they are the ones that would be noticed more and therefore get 'favourited' more often? How could this help finding the hidden costumes?

I understand the idea behind it - I just cant think of any way to handle this without it firstly becoming a popularity contest, and secondly taken advantage of. Please do chuck ideas over for this, but we will definitely without question avoid any kind of 'ranking' on the site


My thoughts on this, largely thieved from other sites, is, well, a lot of maths XD Or a lot of maths combined with some random feature boxes.

AMV.org uses several ratings, including a categoried 1-10 critique thingy, but does do the 1-5 star rating too, and uses olympic averages to get a fair-ish gague - well known costumes will still dominate this but so far that's almost sort of the point - they then have filters that break it down over time, the default being highest within the last year, but with month, week, 2 years, 5 years and of-all-time being options too.. It works pretty well, popular people may end up at the top often but it usually narrows it down enough that hidden gems appear on the list too.


This could just for flashiness' sake be narrowed into say a 6 month list and then a feature box displays randomly from that list, so you kind of get a "best from the last couple of conventions" box XD


On the anti-cheat side.. maybe add hidden weightings to peoples' ratings based on their # of completed costumes, so dummy accounts that just star their real account's costumes don't count for crap compared to someone who's made 30 costumes and counting, and abusers could have that weighting changed to 0 XD YOUR VOTE MEANS NOTHING NOW


27 Jul 2010 - 22:3737203
Realising I skipped a point entirely, go me.

The randomy-bit might help with smokescreening the fact a mathmatical rating is going on, even if in the background it's generated a ranked list of who's better than who which could be used for all sorts of bitchery and fighting - if only a small portion of that list gets shown to users at any time, without attached values just essentially "yeah this costume is currently 'popular'" it should avoid comparisons and you're-not-on-the-list-ner-ner because there's no way of seeing without refreshing a million times and hoping the list didn't change in the interim


27 Jul 2010 - 23:0537208
What if there is a "Like" function like in Facebook, but nobody ever gets to see who liked it, just the number of people who have liked it? Then presumably nobody's feel obliged to like somebody else's costume simply because they're friends, which takes out the popularity element.

........or am I just being too simple and optimistic?


27 Jul 2010 - 23:2337211
Quote Delusional:

1. Rating/favourites. Okay, so saying we add a rating or favourite system so people can mark the costumes they like. So how would other people on the site find these costumes? Would it be by the rating they were given? Have a 'top ten' rated costume list or so? Aside from the potential arguing over who gets 'number one' as an example, this is a kind of system that is so easily abused for the sake of popularity. If your concern is the same people always appearing on the front page and getting attention, surely they are the ones that would be noticed more and therefore get 'favourited' more often? How could this help finding the hidden costumes?

I understand the idea behind it - I just cant think of any way to handle this without it firstly becoming a popularity contest, and secondly taken advantage of. Please do chuck ideas over for this, but we will definitely without question avoid any kind of 'ranking' on the site
)


Couldn't it be implimented as a profile only thing?
Like a "here are costumes made by others <insert name here> likes" list? competly skipping rating and overall site favorites.


27 Jul 2010 - 23:2437212
Everyone has so many interesting ideas and suggestions, I'm glad I created this topic now, even though I was quite nervous when posting it

Nert, your ideas about having hidden values and a "Random Popular" section sounds like it might work! :O


27 Jul 2010 - 23:2537213
Quote Pez:
What if there is a "Like" function like in Facebook, but nobody ever gets to see who liked it, just the number of people who have liked it? Then presumably nobody's feel obliged to like somebody else's costume simply because they're friends, which takes out the popularity element.

........or am I just being too simple and optimistic?


I'm tempted to say yes to the optimism because people would then likely start comparing each other based on number of likes, unless there was no way to see a full list, but then that defeats the point of implementing it XD

I imagine a like system coupled with my idea above might work but it would be some seriously intense work behind the scenes, and it would be heavily biased towards costumes made after it's introduction, older costumes may never get a look-in :/ when the whole point is to help find those very hidden gems.. hrm.


28 Jul 2010 - 00:0237223
What I find interesting is on the one hand, people are complaining here and elsewhere about people using the comments feature as a popularity contest...but on the other hand, people are asking for new features which would...serve as a popularity contest.


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28 Jul 2010 - 07:1337234
Quote sjbonnar:
What I find interesting is on the one hand, people are complaining here and elsewhere about people using the comments feature as a popularity contest...but on the other hand, people are asking for new features which would...serve as a popularity contest.


I think the point is to give recognition where it is due. I always get really upset when I discover a relatively unknown, yet amazing cosplayer only has 2 comments on their complex and gorgeous costume, but someone in an ebayed Kingdom Hearts jacket has 40+ comments.

To be fair, I have clicked on a few obscure, gorgeous things and been surprised to find that they had been given appropriate recognition with a good 30-40 comments... But I remember far more clearly the several times I've been in awe with a photo and then commented in shock "WHERE ARE ALL THE COMMENTS??" XD


28 Jul 2010 - 08:5737237
Quote Chibi:
Quote perfectly_purple:
Maybe if people are looking to improve there should be a little icon or something that flags up a costume as one that welcomes criticism like a little face or something. That way when people comment they can see the icon and know they can be a little more constructive in what comments they leave. And those that don't have the icon (those just doing it for fun/etc) can keep having fun comments. Not to say criticism can't be accompanied by fun comments!

See this is the sort of thing I suggested a month or two ago, with a check box for concrit that would show the person had requested feedback for that particular costume, but the idea pretty much got turned down D:

In fact, I seem to remember you being against it at the time! XD

Which is a shame, coz I thought it could work pretty well


I never said I was against it. What I actually said was 'While the idea of asking for feedback on a costume is brilliant and would be so so useful I agree with Odangochan that some people won't be tactful/sensitive enough to know the difference between Constructive Criticism and Agressive Unnecessary criticism.' I think it's a good idea, my concern was some people not knowing/understanding the correct way to give feedback without upsetting or offending anyone. I stand by that statement.

I've been doing workshopping for four years now at uni and I still occasionally step on people's toes with something I've said (never intentionally of course). Because here's the difficulty with critiquing: if it's something a person has put a lot of time and effort into (eg a story or a cosplay) it's going to be a special and important thing. If someone blunders in and says the wrong kind of thing people are going to get hurt. There's a very fine line between constructive and hurtful. So what I was saying in the other thread and am repeating here is optional criticism is all well and good but be prepared to read things that may be harsher than you expected.

As for the rating system it would be nice (and colourful - damn you tricking me with colours!!) but, as has been said already, too easy to turn into a popularity contest. If you're not out to be the 'most popular' I doubt it'll bother you too much. But as with a lot of things it's a fine line to cross.

Apologises for not really contributing anything new, I just wanted to make something clear!


28 Jul 2010 - 09:2737239
Quote nert:
Quote Pez:
What if there is a "Like" function like in Facebook, but nobody ever gets to see who liked it, just the number of people who have liked it? Then presumably nobody's feel obliged to like somebody else's costume simply because they're friends, which takes out the popularity element.

........or am I just being too simple and optimistic?


I'm tempted to say yes to the optimism because people would then likely start comparing each other based on number of likes, unless there was no way to see a full list, but then that defeats the point of implementing it XD

I imagine a like system coupled with my idea above might work but it would be some seriously intense work behind the scenes, and it would be heavily biased towards costumes made after it's introduction, older costumes may never get a look-in :/ when the whole point is to help find those very hidden gems.. hrm.


...yeah, there's that. XD;

How about, and this might be totally off the mark and also involve a lot of admin work, making a form people can fill in and submit once a month (or every other month, or less frequently). On the form you get to talk about a costume you've come across that you particularly like, and why you like it. Then there can be a section on the site, called "recommended by members" or something, where the submitted forms are displayed. The section can be sorted by month and year.

To avoid a huge deluge of forms for the site admins to check, maybe the window of opportunity for submitting the form can be the first week of every month (or every other month). People must be logged in to submit the form, but there can be a box to tick if they want to remain anonymous when what they've said is put on the site. And it must be a recommendation rather than a critique.

Sorry if this sounds bonkers. There is a reason why I don't participate in running of community sites. XD


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