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26 Apr 2010 - 17:2730624
Constructive Criticism Option
Heya

I've been tossing this idea around for a while I thought I'd bring it up. I've noticed that a lot of people on here generally get a lot of good feedback and everything for their cosplays but it seems that sometimes people are afraid to give any constructive criticism. I know obviously it can be a bit of a touchy subject and some people don't want to seem like their saying the cosplay is bad or anything. I'm not saying that it's bad that everyone gets nice comments on their cosplays, I'm just saying that sometimes it's not always beneficial. I for one would love to have some constructive feedback every now and again because I would like to improve on my cosplay-making ^^ but even if you put it in the cosplay information bit, not everyone reads it and sometimes it can just get overlooked.

Basically my idea is this, would it be possible to add a little drop-down option when putting up a new cosplay (along with name/series/variant/etc) to let people know whether or not you would like contstructive feedback? That way the people who want it can get it and anyone who comments doesn't have to feel like they're going to upset anyone.

I think it's something that would really open up the community and get some good interaction ^^

Thoughts?


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27 Apr 2010 - 12:1830672
It's a nice idea, but unfortunately due to the nature of the internet I'm concerned that it would encourage trolling or misunderstanding. People don't always understand the difference between constructive criticism and outright criticism and it could lead to some unpleasant feeling.

My thought on the matter is that if there's a costume someone is particularly keen on hearing feedback on, it should perhaps be done on the forum, which is already moderated and could therefore be kept in order if things got a bit too negative. Perhaps a sticky thread or a dedicated sub-forum to avoid things getting too cluttered.


27 Apr 2010 - 13:1330679
I agree with Odango on this. the facility to request constructive crit is a good idea but it needs to be done where it can be moderated to stop people abusing the intention.

I was playing with the idea of a Forum thread for constructive crit myself but it deffinately needs buy in from the Mods


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27 Apr 2010 - 13:2830681
hmmm in my opinion its a bad idea, as odango said i think it'll turn some peoples costumes into a 4chan scene


27 Apr 2010 - 13:2930682
While the idea of asking for feedback on a costume is brilliant and would be so so useful I agree with Odangochan that some people won't be tactful/sensitive enough to know the difference between Constructive Criticism and Agressive Unnecessary criticism.

I like the idea of a sub-forum for advice and constructive criticism though. ^_^


27 Apr 2010 - 13:4130684
I think the idea of a con crit option would be a good addition to the site. And while I agree with what's been said before, I think people are forgetting one of the key words here:

Option.

If people select whether they want to receive con crit, then I think it would prevent this place turning into a trolling haven or the UK's answer to 4chan.

If it was optional, then people who are confident in their skills can request more indepth feedback, and those who are not, can continue just getting comments as they normally would. It would be optional whether or not people advertised request for con crit.

I think its a good idea, and having a subforum for it would be a good starting block to see how it goes... but it is one of those things thats an option.


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27 Apr 2010 - 13:5530685
It's an interesting idea and we'll certainly discuss it, there are good and bad points to weigh up.

I would like to point out that there is already a subforum called 'General Costume Help and Critique'. Critique is constructive criticism, feel free to ask for any feedback on your costumes there


27 Apr 2010 - 13:5630686
Quote Silver:
I think the idea of a con crit option would be a good addition to the site. And while I agree with what's been said before, I think people are forgetting one of the key words here:

Option.

If people select whether they want to receive con crit, then I think it would prevent this place turning into a trolling haven or the UK's answer to 4chan.

If it was optional, then people who are confident in their skills can request more indepth feedback, and those who are not, can continue just getting comments as they normally would. It would be optional whether or not people advertised request for con crit.


While that is true the option is for people to choose to receive criticism, not what criticism they get. If you opt it, some people could still leave harsh or unfair criticisms that aren't actually helpful to the person requesting feedback. In that sense you can control who receives feedback but not who gives it. Unless you give each person the control to delete.

I think it's a great idea and it totally useful for helping the community and costumes to grow. But it needs tact and a lot of control to make sure no-one gets hurt or upset.


27 Apr 2010 - 14:1530687
A sub-forum in the Cosplay section of the forum just for ConCrit would work well if you want it to really be monitered.

As Silver said though, my emphasis was on "option" and yes, we get the occasional troll on here but tbh I don't see the ConCrit option making a difference to what comments they might post. If there's a troll on here they're going to make horrible comments, whether that option is there or not.

I can understand what you're saying though, I guess I'd just like to believe that people on here a bit more mature than we give them credit for and can act in a responsible manner.
After all, anyone who does want ConCrit will already be mentally prepared to hear things they may not want to hear.


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27 Apr 2010 - 15:3830691
I used to write fanfiction a lot.

Now, I was never very good, even after writing for a few years, but when I first started I was downright awful.

It is only through constructive critisism that I improved. Through people saying "that's spelled wrong, that makes no sense, that is just plain stupid" and following it with "here's a dictionary/try it like this/maybe you should re-write that part all together".

I thought a while back that it's hard to get better at cosplay without people being willing to say how it doesn't look perfect...and I'll admit, some of my stuff looks awful!

People will often say to you "it looks amazing! You're the best I've ever seen!" and when I know that it doesn't, and that I'm not...it's almost insulting. It is sweet, but how can you tell when they mean it or when they're saying it out of kindness or even pity...?

There are always gonna be people who are horrible. Part of getting better is learning what feedback is realistic and what is mean.

The people on this site are, I have found, so very lovely. I think it'd be great if we all worked to feedback to each other. It might help prepare us for when the just plain nasty comments do come our way...

Maybe it doesn't need a seperate option? Maybe it needs us all to be mature, and be willing to give and recieve help constructively =D

That's my two cents anyway =)


27 Apr 2010 - 16:0630693
It seems the main issue that why you're hesitant about this is because some people will use it as an excuse for unnecessary comments. I just wanna point out, they can do that anyway, there's nothing stopping saying something along the lines of "that's poopy". There is now a delete option, so you can delete any comments you don't like from there, but it doesn't actually prevent it from happening. So, basically, I don't think it's gonna make much difference to what people say. The biggest issues is people not quite understanding what constructive criticism is, but that can be sorted by having a brief definition of it with an example or something.


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27 Apr 2010 - 17:1230701
As has been mentioned in the first post, Cosplay Island has a little bit of a reputation for being "over nice" and a little saccharin at times (don't shoot the messanger!). So with this in mind how objective will a constructive criticism section actually be? People won't want to say anything constructivly negative for fear of being branded a troll or having said comment/post deleted by the person who recieved it. Yes the more serious cosplayers would no doubt find it a useful tool as they can use their experiennce to benefit those that need a little helping hand.

However I fear they will be in a minority. As with the comments sections now which are used by a lot of site members to conduct conversations and self congratulatory praise who will have little stomach for anything apart from "OMG YOU LOOK AWESEOME". What will be left is a string of "criticisms" that the person actually likes rather than actually may benefit from. Much like the comments section we have now. Any meaningful criticisms will be devalued/lost in a tidal surge of well meaning fangirling and friend praise.

So what about giving the power to delete inappropriate criticisms to he moderation team? I'm sure they have enough to do already without having their workload doubled over night.

So in summary, you could say that rather than "opening up" the community it will just be used and abused as another means for people to flatter their friends with little in the way of constructive benefit. I think its a nice idea in theory but in practice wouldn't work on the scale being proposed.

A criticism section already exists on the site as Amy Lou pointed out, maybe a sub forum in their would suit.



Last edited by Leadmill (27 Apr 2010 - 17:19)
27 Apr 2010 - 17:3930707
Quote Leadmill:
As has been mentioned in the first post, Cosplay Island has a little bit of a reputation for being "over nice" and a little saccharin at times (don't shoot the messanger!). So with this in mind how objective will a constructive criticism section actually be? People won't want to say anything constructivly negative for fear of being branded a troll or having said comment/post deleted by the person who recieved it. Yes the more serious cosplayers would no doubt find it a useful tool as they can use their experiennce to benefit those that need a little helping hand.

However I fear they will be in a minority. As with the comments sections now which are used by a lot of site members to conduct conversations and self congratulatory praise who will have little stomach for anything apart from "OMG YOU LOOK AWESEOME". What will be left is a string of "criticisms" that the person actually likes rather than actually may benefit from. Much like the comments section we have now. Any meaningful criticisms will be devalued/lost in a tidal surge of well meaning fangirling and friend praise.

So what about giving the power to delete inappropriate criticisms to he moderation team? I'm sure they have enough to do already without having their workload doubled over night.

So in summary, you could say that rather than "opening up" the community it will just be used and abused as another means for people to flatter their friends with little in the way of constructive benefit. I think its a nice idea in theory but in practice wouldn't work on the scale being proposed.

A criticism section already exists on the site as Amy Lou pointed out, maybe a sub forum in their would suit.


pretty much summed it up, aswell i just think if someone posts on someone elses costume with "constructive criticism" there might be allot of bitching with people saying " OH, WHO GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO TELL ME OR SO AND SO HOW TO IMPROVE THINGS WHEN THERE COSTUMES ARE SHIT THEMSELVES" becaus lets face it, it DOES GO on


27 Apr 2010 - 18:1730715
This would be incredibly difficult to implement and do but... would it work with maybe a "panel"? Like a sub forum dedicated to con crit, or something like that, and people apply to be in the criticism panel? So people could post and ask for critique and people in this panel could reply only, something like this! So you'd know what these people have made themselves and what they usually write like in advance.

But about it being optional, I think they use this on deviantart (to select level of critique required). It seems to work there!

Personally I wouldn't go for it, because I like just to share pictures and stuff here, I ask for critique directly from people I admire haha XD


27 Apr 2010 - 18:1930717
We also have to keep in mind that for some people this is a portfolio of their work. It's pretty unproffessional to have comments on your portfolio about how you should improve your work, especially if a potential commissioner happens to read them.

I think forum posts are a better way to handle critisism as it's a case that you're actively seeking it which encourages people to post. Also having it on the forum means it's likely for more people to participate as the comments section of someone's costume will not get as much traffic as an active forum post. More people involved means there will be better all round advice and discussion of materials leading to improvement.

Having it on the forum also makes it much easier for the mods to moderate content if it does get out of control, as the forum is tiny compared to the 16000 costumes with comments.

-Tab


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27 Apr 2010 - 18:3630720
i have to stand on the anti- side of this. my foremost thought is that someone (even possibly unintentionally) will say something, and that person will be labelled "mean".

crits encourage argument and opinion, which are two things that don't translate onto the internet at all where tone and meaning are often lost.

the other problem has already been addressed in that it will only encourage trolling/art-nazi-ing, which are things that this community really don't need at this point.

my final point is that if we do end up with a critique system, it HAS to be TOTALLY INVISIBLE. even the biggest name artists and designers are critted by their production managers, but their crits are either private or in small groups. NEVER published for the world to see.


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30 Apr 2010 - 14:3530935
Quote perfectly_purple:
While the idea of asking for feedback on a costume is brilliant and would be so so useful I agree with Odangochan that some people won't be tactful/sensitive enough to know the difference between Constructive Criticism and Agressive Unnecessary criticism.

I like the idea of a sub-forum for advice and constructive criticism though. ^_^


I agree. I think although con crit is great it can so easierly get out of control.

I have used the cos.com's version of the 'cosplay crit' thread and found it the be very useful. It did have rules on what could be posted. If anything that was posted was deemed rude then post was removed and the person warned. I got some great feedback re my Sephiroth from it (expect possibly the insistance that I should wig for him XD XD ).

One thought is it you want critquie you could always request it in the heading of you costume, eg, 'Sephiroth - Crisis Core version (critquie requested)'. That way people know that you want some sugguested feedback. Or that they pm you that way its completely privite.


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Last edited by Sephirayne (30 Apr 2010 - 14:36) Reason: spelling
03 May 2010 - 12:3131127
I think the issue here isn't that there isn't a forum for contructive criticism, because as Amy-Lou pointed out, the General Costume Help and Critique is there for that reason. It's more to do with individuals not posting the feedback in the first place, due to various reasons (fear of being seen as mean leading to a bad reputation, not wanting to be the first to put themselves out there, not being bothered, not thinking of the forum in that way initially)

People who want to get feedback should first get in the habit of posting a thread asking for it, and reply to others who also start threads and in turn this should hopefully slowly encourage more people to contribute with constructive advice.

If people felt that they'd be more comfortable splitting the General Costume Help and Critique into 2 seperate sections then I feel it would be a valid suggestion for the admin.


03 May 2010 - 12:5831129
Quote Tak:
I think the issue here isn't that there isn't a forum for contructive criticism, because as Amy-Lou pointed out, the General Costume Help and Critique is there for that reason. It's more to do with individuals not posting the feedback in the first place, due to various reasons (fear of being seen as mean leading to a bad reputation, not wanting to be the first to put themselves out there, not being bothered, not thinking of the forum in that way initially)

People who want to get feedback should first get in the habit of posting a thread asking for it, and reply to others who also start threads and in turn this should hopefully slowly encourage more people to contribute with constructive advice.

If people felt that they'd be more comfortable splitting the General Costume Help and Critique into 2 seperate sections then I feel it would be a valid suggestion for the admin.


I think splitting it would help a lot actually. If you decided to post up on the forum asking for feedback it could very easily get lost in the help and advice posts that are being asked, which might also explain why no feedback is being given.

Being specific in asking for criticisms is key too. (It's how things work in my writing workshops). For example, rather than just saying 'what do you think of my ..... costume?' asking 'does the jacket look too long?' or 'are the colours too bright?' can help focus people's attentions.


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