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17 Jan 2010 - 01:0525552
Quote sjbonnar:


I love the feeling of being in costume, I love the feeling of being in character, I love the feeling of being on stage, I love the atmosphere of conventions, I LOVE WAR!

O_O Sorry, Herr Major rising to the surface ^_^' *wonders how many people'll get that...*


Completely irrelevant but when is OVA 5 getting an english release goddammit!! :'(


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17 Jan 2010 - 12:1925556
Tis an interesting article and interesting to hear peoples responses in the thread.My personal opinion is that the article seems like it ios not going to be merely a critisism of competitiveness,it is saying that people should make sure they are more friendly to each other in general,which is a good sentiment.Healthy competitiveness is good like fishyfins says.Being rude and unfriendly obviously is not good and not needed.
I find some of the comments a little naive.Saying people on this site and in the u.k. cosplay scene in general are really nice and friendly and you would be hard pushed to find more than a few people on this site who aren't.From my experience I would say it was 50-50 at best.It is like any walk of life,no different.Some people are interested in being your friend andd some people just aren't,and some are just plaing rude,unfriendly,or purposefully spiteful and create drama.
I started cosplay because I thought it looked like it would be fun to join in and recreate my favourit characters and bring them to life,and to make some new friends,ones that shared my love of playing Final Fantasy.I have met some nice ones and made some good friends,but like all walks of life come across lots of people who aren't that friendly and won't change.
Ultimately I think that while it is slightly obvious to say what the article is attempting to say (remember to be nice to one another) it certainly doesn't hurt for us to be reminded once in a while.


17 Jan 2010 - 12:5725558
Quote Fables:
Quote sjbonnar:


I love the feeling of being in costume, I love the feeling of being in character, I love the feeling of being on stage, I love the atmosphere of conventions, I LOVE WAR!

O_O Sorry, Herr Major rising to the surface ^_^' *wonders how many people'll get that...*


Completely irrelevant but when is OVA 5 getting an english release goddammit!! :'(


WAY off topic but;
DK: Yes...indeed LOL
Fables: There has been some issues since ADV folded ^_^'

It'll certainly be interesting to see what's on the next half of the list ^_^


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CosplayIsland Staff Member


17 Jan 2010 - 13:3825560
I personally do agree with the artical slightly.

I have been in the copslay scene since 1992 (I know I do go on about that, sorry). I started on the Sci-fi con scene and then moved on to anime.

There has always been drama in the scene. Its unfortunatly something that comes with the awesomeness of hobby. It has always stayed in the background. I have noticed recently that the behaviour desribed in the artical has become more of a fore front to cosplay. I think its happened as a result of people cluing that you can actually get well known or get an earning from it. People have become more competitive. Its something I've noticed from a personal point of view. Its no one individuals fault. Its something that has been manifesting.

A few years ago I would never of recieved some of the comments/e-mails that I have recieved that have been quite frankly down right rude. I know that not everyone is going to like my costumes but theres no need to be rude/spiteful about it.

I do agree with the artical as a reminder on how to keep it fun. I know that occasionally I've forgotten to have fun whilst building stuff. Its something that I'm determined to change.

"Be excellent to each other".


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17 Jan 2010 - 14:3625576
Quote Sephirayne:


"Be excellent to each other".


Party on Dude!

I'm still reletively new to Cosplay (Just over a year or so now) and personally took very slow steps when it came to progress; I kept on doing things that I could adapt clothes I already had for (..>_> -cough-Turks-cough-) And that was partly my own choice (I don't want to be able to showcase something if its not perfect) and another was because it was already clear to me that while the community itself seems to be so happy and friendly, there are a few individuals are just elitist (sorry to be frank.)

I don't think it just comes down to the competitiveness of cosplay, I think it generally comes down to people being elated above everyone else. Good cosplayers are one thing, but people are hero worshiped. However I do understand that some people are given this status not by their own choice either.

Again, its the minority that have this status, but it creates a gap, which creates feirce competition in the "ranks below" to reach the same standard. And by looks of things, its not just because of the standard of cosplay (a few friendly jibes in the masq queue isnt what I'm talking about here) its the full out slating of costumes.

If I got into cosplay right now, I don't think I'd be happy ever wearing something that I had made to a con for fear of being ripped appart by said elitists.

-shrugs- I have no idea if that makes sense to anyone else.


17 Jan 2010 - 20:0425589
seriousness and competitivness is fine. it encourages improvement and growth of creative skill. the only thing that's "bad" is when that competitivness turns into an overcritical streak, especially when people are being critical about the non-comp members of the community. then it starts to wander into the realms of the people who "play to win" at things like fun-runs.


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17 Jan 2010 - 20:2625590
admitadly one of the reasons ive not done many cosplay is just because ive been worried about getting a cosplay perrfect, and cas ive been worried about my weight and what people will say its made me loose motivation and quite frankly thats happened on all my costumes, theres been some other reasons , likelazyness sometimes, but this is a big one, but im slowing weaning my way out of it , hence doing cloud.

its just getting to grips with there are people out there who are going to take it far more seriously to win , obviously people like tab and xaerael who quite frankly is fair considering there running very succesful cosplay buisneses, but its more of the rude criticism with some cosplayers thats the put off, like weight insults, yes some people might be way off sometimes, for istance a girl who has a belly cosplaying as yoko, thing is to me i think kudos to her for having the guts to do it.


17 Jan 2010 - 20:5325591
Quote xaerael:
seriousness and competitivness is fine. it encourages improvement and growth of creative skill. the only thing that's "bad" is when that competitivness turns into an overcritical streak.


THIS

yea its fine to do this for 'fun' but some people do take it seriously if they run a commission business or want to create spectacular costumes, and fair enough.

Its just not being a dick about it and acting all high and mighty whether you do it for fun or seriously. No one likes a ruthlessly competitive person.


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My God. Its full of stars
17 Jan 2010 - 21:3325595
I've been to many cons here in the US and been to several Expos. My favorite place to cosplay is in the UK. I feel that everyone is friendly and welcoming to me. I'm sure there are those that have put me down but I try to stay away from that crap. It happens in every aspect of life. Cosplay is costume play, not costume serious business! Sure, competition has its place in masquerades where you are judged on your costume construction.

I will admit that I'm not immune to gossip and bad talk. Hell, I heard rumors that a certain UK cosplayer was nothing but a stuck up bitch so I stayed far away from her. Got to know her and she is now one of my friends who I adore. Mistakes and judgement happen but should not be the forefront of a con atmosphere. If you put time and effort into a costume, get into character and have fun then that's what it's all about.

Just my two cents. If you're a nasty person every day of your life you're going to be nasty to cosplayers. If you're a good person then you'll appreciate what I do. People having fun who share the same love for costumes.


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17 Jan 2010 - 22:0425597
The competitiveness of cosplay in the Uk is what has pushed everyone to their limits to create some outstanding world class cosplay and has really put Uk cosplay on the map...

The downside to this is now to meet that standard a lot of time and effort goes in costuming and it seems to be less and less rewarding which has kinda taken the fun out of it.

Dont get me wrong I still enjoy the challenge of costume making, just not the money id spend making one, the pressure to make something people will barely notice will be extremely uncomfortable and I'll only wear 3 times max.

Among all this its easy to loose sight of what got us started its about the Anime, Movie, Video game, or character you've created that you love to the extent you bring it to life


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17 Jan 2010 - 22:1325598
Quote MangaChild:
The competitiveness of cosplay in the Uk is what has pushed everyone to their limits to create some outstanding world class cosplay and has really put Uk cosplay on the map...

The downside to this is now to meet that standard a lot of time and effort goes in costuming and it seems to be less and less rewarding which has kinda taken the fun out of it.

Dont get me wrong I still enjoy the challenge of costume making, just not the money id spend making one, the pressure to make something people will barely notice will be extremely uncomfortable and I'll only wear 3 times max.

Among all this its easy to loose sight of what got us started its about the Anime, Movie, Video game, or character you've created that you love to the extent you bring it to life


took the words from my mouth mike, the part about its less motivating to make somet then get less recognised and noticed because of the whole standard some people expect, its less motivating


17 Jan 2010 - 23:0925601
Ah I saw this in NEO aswell while I was reading it.
To be honest I know a few cosplayers that are exactly like that. They take the fun out of it all.

But hey its just something for us all to do and we should enjoy it.

But when it comes down to it some people just get big headed when they win things and when they get loads of photos taken of them in costume and stuff so I guess it can go either way.

Ive not won anything nore have I had loads of photos taken by other cosplayers. Ive had some professional ones done by Pouncy at the mcm expo, but that was only because he wanted me to feel special for once and not feel like I am a totally twit and whatever.


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17 Jan 2010 - 23:5325604
Competitiveness is good, it's what keeps raising the quality bar.

Sure there are a lot more professional people involved, but that just makes more things possible (guests, more vendors, competitions). If anyone cares to think back to the early Cons\ Cosplay it was tiny, we'd take over a hotel room and talk about the things we'd seen on VHS. You were pushing the Cosplay boundary if you had more than a kooky hat or cat ears to wear.

The last Pro cosplayer I met, I dropped her off at an address she'd been given (she was from out-of-town by thousands of miles) only later did I find out she was stuck outside in the cold for hours (in Cosplay) before someone arrived to let her in- yea, she was really living it up at the Ritz

Keep Cosplaying for yourself and when it no longer makes you happy it's time to stop.

If people are mean, it's because they ARE mean people and that you find everywhere.


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every time someone builds a new fool-proof system, someone gives birth to a better fool

Last edited by CPU (18 Jan 2010 - 00:26)
18 Jan 2010 - 03:4525610
Although I'm quite competitive, I don't do masquarades anymore, I have won one contest, and came second for a couple more, but I was also been "snobbed" in one (I was told by one of the judges afterwards) which is why I don't bother any more...lol.

I'm still competitive and I like to make good costumes to a good standard. I appreciate good craftmanship and the effort others put in their costumes, as I hope others would do for my work .

I've been amazed by other people's work, I've certainly been envious of their skills, but jaleous? What's the point...life's too short to stress about that!

And if I have something to say about a costume, I hope it's constructive, I'm sure all the comments I've had have always been constructive, and that's how I like it


18 Jan 2010 - 14:0625622
Elitism in cosplay seems a bit ridiculous. We're all basically adults playing dress-up!

Everyone starts out the same, and just because some people are more experienced at sewing over others doesn't give them the right to laugh at people starting out now. We're all on the same path, and we can all walk at our own pace.

I think the only thing I'm not keen on cosplay wise is where people pick characters that are completely wrong for their body type and don't adjust the costume to compensate for it. I know for myself, if I make something exact to pattern I'll look horrendous in it but if I tuck and adjust it a little it can look amazing instead. It's all in how you look at it!


18 Jan 2010 - 14:4825624
Depends if you take pride in your work I suppose.


18 Jan 2010 - 23:2825656
*Looks around and sees faces that scream 'Oh no! Ice Climber's getting involved'*

Anyway, I have to say I agree totally with Mark's article. The thing is it isn't bashing competition. Healthy competition is a good thing and is usually enjoyable. I've entered the Expo Masquerade and had fun. Sure, I've wanted to win but it wasn't a big deal when I didn't.

The kind of person that is the 'serious business' plague the article mentions is the arrogant, bitchy, and self-absorbed attention seeker. This person wants to be the focus of everything and tries to create a large following for themselves online. The kind of person that will pander to the fangirls to get the screams (no, I am not going into THAT again). Also, this kind of person will go on and on about being robbed when not receiving first prize in a masquerade.

There is someone with quite a bad reputation who I will refer to as "Cally". She has quite large online following. Anyone, outside of her little group is often subject to unnecessarily harsh criticism and possibly abuse. I have heard that she has pulled at a good friends costume and made a comment about the stitching. I've seen her on stage quite a few times with a complete 'look at me' attitude and making sure she is the last off stage. Cally seems to enjoy her so-called status. Cally is the epitome of 'serious business'.

I think Cally and the other people that behave like this need a public dressing down. We don't care how good you think you are. We don't care about overlocker. And we really don't care about how many people are following you on DA/Facebook.


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19 Jan 2010 - 00:3825665
Quote Ice-climber:
*I will refer to as "Cally". She has quite large online following.


Yea thats subtle!


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My God. Its full of stars
19 Jan 2010 - 00:4225666
Quote Sands:
Quote Ice-climber:
*I will refer to as "Cally". She has quite large online following.


Yea thats subtle!


ROFLMAO


19 Jan 2010 - 00:5625667
Quote ryaoki:
Quote Sands:
Quote Ice-climber:
*I will refer to as "Cally". She has quite large online following.


Yea thats subtle!


ROFLMAO


You know, it might not be the person you're thinking of.


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Last edited by Ice-climber (19 Jan 2010 - 00:56)
19 Jan 2010 - 01:2625673
As slightly off as this may be, what does the fact we're all talking about such a thing with concern say about the community in the UK as it is? For this reason among others I'd say we have little to worry about, another big factor is that there are significantly less of us compared to places in America and Japan where most situations are overlooked. Here word travels fast and everyone seems to be on it like flies to honey, take the article itself for example. I think we're all wised up enough to not fall into the same traps, besides it too small a box to set off controlled explosions if that makes sense.

That's my chocolate two cents. |:



Last edited by Xephios (19 Jan 2010 - 01:36)
19 Jan 2010 - 11:1925682
Having watched this thread develop over the last few days I think its all really a bit futile.

Fact One. There are people who take cosplayer seriously because it is their business and their livelihood. They do not make it 'serious business' to try and get ahead in the game or gain popularity. They are a serious business because their commissions etc. are their in come.

Fact Two. Most UK cosplayers cosplay for fun because its a chance to be creative and gather with other people who have the same interests. And that's great. Sad fact there are always going to be better cosplayers than you, and worse cosplayers than you, you just have to suck it up. Being better than someone else doesn't give you the right to snipe and be a snob about their costume.

Cosplayers, old or new, put time and effort into their costumes and having someone who's basically on the same level as them bitch about their costume just because they think it looks naff is just pointless and childish. I'm sure if you took your costume to a professional costumier they would point out every single fault without sugar coating anything.

Fact Three. Those people who do take cosplay as 'serious business' because they want to be the best, want to be the centre of attention, want to be bitched about (even though they say they don't) aren't worth your time. These are the people who make this hobby difficult to enjoy at times because they think winning a masquerade at an Expo is like winning a gold medal at the Olympics and they let it go to their head. They don't actually undertstand that the cosplay community is a very small minority and winning a masquerade/awards for being able to make a costume isn't going to get them anywhere (unless, of course you intend to go into the costuming world where be able to make costumes will give you a nice level playing field of basics).

But that's my input.


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19 Jan 2010 - 12:5225686
^ fully agreed with Silver.

My grandmother who is a professional dress maker and does avidly points out every single fault in every costume I've made. Which does hit me like a bunch of bricks each time it does happen. But I'm not cosplayer who wants aims to be a real dress maker, it's just a hobby for me. So I'm not 100% bothered if my costumes aren't done with a certain stitch or what not. All I want from this hobby is to be able to run round dressed as Sailor Moon and hang out with my friends.

As long as I personally think I look alright and that I'm having fun then I don't really mind. I don't have a competitive bone in my body (unless it comes to bust-a-move on the PS) so winning masquerades has never been on my agenda or even on something that bothers me.

I think seriousness over this hobby is silly. Unless you are a commissioner or aiming for work in a similar field to costume making/prop making or even photography/modeling then granted that's understandable for people to take things seriously. As you want to be as professional as possible.


19 Jan 2010 - 23:4225721
I think everyone has summed it up perfectly here~

I dont think that the UK will be effected by this "dark cloud". There are a few with 'elitist' attitudes, but they're easily outnumbered by all the people I see at cons and expo running around in cosplay thoroughly enjoying themselves.

=)


19 Jan 2010 - 23:5425723
I just like to add to this, that everyone is saying that commissioners have to be 'serious business' to get far, but that isn't necessarily so.

I think it's safe to say that pretty much all of the commissioners or people trying to get by by making cosplay/costumes in out community still know the divide between when it's serious business, and when you can chill out having loads of stupidity and fun! I think we're really lucky in that aspect!


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