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13 May 2009 - 00:1114304
Animeleague @ London Film & Comic Con
PRESS RELEASES ARE BAD MMKAY? - Sjbonnar



Last edited by sjbonnar (13 May 2009 - 21:40)
13 May 2009 - 01:3014305
Ah, good old Team Dianetics.

No, sorry, Dimension! Definitely Dimension! Not Dianetics! Ooh, how could I get those words mixed up so easily...?

Oh ho ho.


__________________
Cara bell', cara mia bella, mia bambina, o ciel!
13 May 2009 - 09:0514306
So you joined to spam us with your press release? Your badly constructed one at that... If this post was just about the event it would be fine but as it's an Anime League thing I really can't take this seriously.


13 May 2009 - 09:3914307
I think it's sad that Showmasters are doing this. I go for the Sci-Fi and Cult stuff but if it gets taken over by Anime like London expo then it will really be the death of mainstream Sign-cons in the UK. We used to work for them in introducing cosplay to their shows and I LOVED all the beautiful Sci-fi costumes people would wear! How many people still wear this stuff at Expo?



Last edited by Mocara (13 May 2009 - 09:59)
13 May 2009 - 13:0314312
Quote Kazz:
So you joined to spam us with your press release? Your badly constructed one at that... If this post was just about the event it would be fine but as it's an Anime League thing I really can't take this seriously.

Animeleague organised a great Alcon 2008, which over 95% of attendees are returning to, have experience in running Video Gaming and Artist Alleys (having done so at our own events), and run more casual meetups for anime fans than any other online community(at the rate of between one and two a month). We have also supported a number of conventions such as Kitacon in the recent past and helped to promote them. As such, there's no need to be so negative.

Regarding "spamming with the press release", if the forum staff believe it inappropriate, then please remove this. Otherwise, I'd appreciate it if everyone would keep an open-mind and avoid resorting to overly negative or sarcastic comments.



Last edited by FreeSaiyan (13 May 2009 - 13:05)
13 May 2009 - 13:0914313
Good to see new things coming up. I've been rather bored of MCM Expo and other conventions of late... I dunno I just like to see a bit of a new dynamic in place

Shame Spike Spencer is going, though Jewel Staite will be there and I looove Firefly



Last edited by Mewski (13 May 2009 - 13:09)
13 May 2009 - 13:5714314
Quote FreeSaiyan:

Animeleague organised a great Alcon 2008, which over 95% of attendees are returning to, have experience in running Video Gaming and Artist Alleys (having done so at our own events), and run more casual meetups for anime fans than any other online community(at the rate of between one and two a month). We have also supported a number of conventions such as Kitacon in the recent past and helped to promote them. As such, there's no need to be so negative.

Regarding "spamming with the press release", if the forum staff believe it inappropriate, then please remove this. Otherwise, I'd appreciate it if everyone would keep an open-mind and avoid resorting to overly negative or sarcastic comments.


This is a forum and such I am permitted to post my own opinion, I stand by what I have said. I know who you and Anime League are, especially since I have been spammed by both you and your "manga alliance". I have ran many online and offline gaming event as part of my career and I worked for DDRUK and other UK conventions for a number of years, I don't think you quite know what you're getting yourself into. No matter what you say about your vast event knowledge, you have a lot to learn.

You've posted twice since joining C-I today, one to spam your press release and one to tell me why my opinion is wrong. I see you're quite an active member of the cosplay community.


13 May 2009 - 16:5414323
Quote Mewski:
Good to see new things coming up. I've been rather bored of MCM Expo and other conventions of late... I dunno I just like to see a bit of a new dynamic in place

Shame Spike Spencer is going, though Jewel Staite will be there and I looove Firefly

A new dynamic would be great to see in the expo-style event. I definitely think London FCC can bring this to the fans.


13 May 2009 - 18:1614326
Quote FreeSaiyan:
Regarding "spamming with the press release", if the forum staff believe it inappropriate, then please remove this. Otherwise, I'd appreciate it if everyone would keep an open-mind and avoid resorting to overly negative or sarcastic comments.


Sure.

As long as you keep an open mind and avoid continuing to resort to banning, blocking, or deleting posts from anyone with a questioning viewpoint on the forum you moderate on. Like you did with me when I asked about legal issues with young artists (<18 years old) in your manga creating club, pointing out that it might be a problem you would want to look into?

(Can I get a fist-pound?)

For the benefit of full disclosure, I had previously used a 4-letter curse in another post, although that was similarly questioning using the 4-letter word earned me a warning. This one was entirely a serious query. It got me banned. >_>



Last edited by Oz (13 May 2009 - 18:54)
13 May 2009 - 19:3914331
Quote FreeSaiyan:
We have also supported a number of conventions such as Kitacon in the recent past and helped to promote them. As such, there's no need to be so negative.


As a member of the Kitacon committee, I have to take umbridge with you using us as defence in a disagreement on these forums. I would like to just point out that you doing a spot of gophering and some advertisement for our convention to AL members doesn't really constitute a mutual agreement of support and promotion. We, Kitacon, have demonstrated we are more than capable of running things off our own backs and whilst all support is appreciated, I don't want people to make a mountain out of a molehill because they posted a link on their events forum.

Please don't mention us again in such a manner, thanks.



Last edited by Lat (13 May 2009 - 19:40)
13 May 2009 - 20:0914335
Quote:
As long as you keep an open mind and avoid continuing to resort to banning, blocking, or deleting posts from anyone with a questioning viewpoint on the forum you moderate on.

It is our own website, we have our own policy and rules and we have a right to uphold them as we wish. I have already stated that the staff on here are free to remove this topic if they deem it inappropiate, and I would respect their decision on that. Your behaviour on there was seeming to deliberately seeking to stir drama and cause problems and considered trolling. If you genuinely have no ill-intention and would like to be unbanned, then you can contact me privately and we can review the matter.

Quote:
For the benefit of full disclosure, I had previously used a 4-letter curse in another post, although that was similarly questioning using the 4-letter word earned me a warning. This one was entirely a serious query. It got me banned. >_>

We have no issues with curse-words provided they are not directed against other individuals. For example, saying "Fucking hell, I've had a bad day" is quite alright, whereas saying "You're a fucktard" really is not.

And Lat, I am simply stating that we have helped out other people. I apologise if it gave the impression that it was in any way more than what you stated there.



Last edited by FreeSaiyan (13 May 2009 - 20:16)
13 May 2009 - 20:1114336
Quote:

(Can I get a fist-pound?)


*fist pound*

don't worry, twitter will be back tomorrow I'm sure



I have helped gopher DDR UK on occasion (well, got under everyones feet and moved a few boxes). I have mentioned cons on my LJ. I would NEVER think to claim that "Fatkraken Fursuits" (or whatever I end up calling my business) had "supported DDRUK" or "publicised minami".

You need to learn to separate ORGANISATIONS from INDIVIDUALS. Just because someone is a member of a forum, or even runs one, does not mean any activity they do is automatically associated with that organisation. AnimeLeague has only helped Kitacon if one organisation approached the other and came to an agreement of some sort.



Last edited by Fatkraken (13 May 2009 - 20:19)
13 May 2009 - 20:2214338
Quote Fatkraken:
You need to learn to separate ORGANISATIONS from INDIVIDUALS. Just because someone is a member of a forum, or even runs one, does not mean any activity they do is automatically associated with that organisation. AnimeLeague has only helped Kitacon if one organisation approached the other and came to an agreement of some sort.

And you need to learn to be aware of all the facts before commenting.


13 May 2009 - 20:2514339
Quote FreeSaiyan:

And you need to learn to be aware of all the facts before commenting.


hmm?

Lat said "I would like to just point out that you doing a spot of gophering and some advertisement for our convention to AL members doesn't really constitute a mutual agreement of support and promotion" and you didn't object. If that was what occurred, I think the comparison is apt. If it was not the truth, I assumed you would have pointed that out.


13 May 2009 - 20:2614340
Quote FreeSaiyan:
Quote:
As long as you keep an open mind and avoid continuing to resort to banning, blocking, or deleting posts from anyone with a questioning viewpoint on the forum you moderate on.


It is our own website, we have our own policy and rules and we have a right to uphold them as we wish. I have already stated that the staff on here are free to remove this topic if they deem it inappropiate, and I would respect their decision on that. Your behaviour on there was seeming to deliberately seeking to stir drama and cause problems and considered trolling. If you genuinely have no ill-intention and would like to be unbanned, then you can contact me privately and we can discuss the matter.


We are not talking about your staff. We are talking about YOUR own hammer, which seems to fall on so much as a squeak of disapproval. YOU are the person that took umbridge at my question. Now you are seemingly (to me) attempting to get rid of the thread here, one would assume in order to cover up any dissenting voice. I wish you the best in this endeavour.

If you wish to answer here, my question regarding your faux-school of Manga was "What are the policies for different ages of person who wishes to join the school? For example there are different laws for different age groups, and these vary between different political lines. What information do these different ages need to provide, and what consent is needed?"
(This, FYI, is seriously the question I was banned for)

EDIT: Now, I wish to stress that I DON'T CARE about being banned as it was only there to ask questions of your policies, I am only annoyed that you are looking to push your company on others, and don't take any serious criticism, at all, ever.

Quote:
Quote:
For the benefit of full disclosure, I had previously used a 4-letter curse in another post, although that was similarly questioning using the 4-letter word earned me a warning. This one was entirely a serious query. It got me banned. >_>

We have no issues with curse-words provided they are not directed against other individuals. For example, saying "Fucking hell, I've had a bad day" is quite alright, whereas saying "You're a f***tard" really is not.


It was for full disclosure so you couldn't come here and say "Well actually you did X" and not so you could make ad hominem remarks suggesting that I swore AT someone. If I recall correctly, I didn't make a statement such as "You're a f***tard", as I tend not to call people nasty things when I have serious questions I am asking at the same time. I am going to assume for now that your records prove me right. If you (similarly to your previous comment) wish to contact me to discuss it, you can do, however the email address I tried contacting you on wasn't active.

EDIT: If I recall, the other question asked what your status was with your official school governing body, such as AQA.

Quote:
And Lat, I am simply stating that we have helped out other people. I apologise if it gave the impression that it was in any way more than what you stated there.


Oh you so did on purpose, you knew full-well that suggesting that you had "supported" "and helped promote" conventions, without stating exactly what you did, artificially inflated it. We're not stupid, and we know you're not stupid enough to miss this glaring issue.

And so ends my 5-dimensional comment. FEEL THE POWAH!



Last edited by Oz (13 May 2009 - 20:46)
13 May 2009 - 20:4414341
Quote:
We are not talking about your staff. We are talking about YOUR own hammer, which seems to fall on so much as a squeak of disapproval.

Actually, we have a fully detailed banning system, with a number of systemic checks. We have a body of sixty staff members who have a right to comment on each ban and put forth their objections if they see an issue with one. Not one of our staff saw any issue with you being banned on the grounds of trolling.

Quote:
YOU are the person that took umbridge at my question. Now you are seemingly (to me) attempting to get rid of the thread here, one would assume in order to cover up any dissenting voice. I wish you the best in this endeavour.

You're the one seeking to make this personal, not myself. I have already stated that if your intentions were not to troll, then I am more than happy to spend time on reviewing the decision.

Quote:
If you wish to answer here, my question regarding your faux-school of Manga was "What are the policies for different ages of person who wishes to join the school? For example there are different laws for different age groups, and these vary between different political lines. What information do these different ages need to provide, and what consent is needed?"

You know very well that was not the reason. If you wish to discuss why you were banned, contact me via email or private messaging. I am not prepared to discuss that in here.

As to the "laws" as to each age group, we already consulted the relevant authorities on the matter. Such matters are simply of no interest to those authorities in the same way that the thousands of other such initiatives in this country are not.


Quote:
EDIT: Now, I wish to stress that I DON'T CARE about being banned as it was only there to ask questions of your policies, I am only annoyed that you are looking to push your company on others, and don't take any serious criticism, at all, ever.

I don't own a company, and I am actually very responsive to criticism. However, there is a difference between pointing out issues in a mature and constructive manner, and simply trolling.

Quote:
Oh you so did on purpose, you knew full-well that suggesting that you had "supported" "and helped promote" conventions, without stating exactly what you did, artificially inflated it. We're not stupid, and we know you're not stupid enough to miss this glaring issue.

That's quite funny, and you clearly give me more credit than I am due, since that was not my underlying motive whatsoever.


13 May 2009 - 20:5514342
Quote FreeSaiyan:
Actually, we have a fully detailed banning system, with a number of systemic checks. We have a body of sixty staff members who have a right to comment on each ban and put forth their objections if they see an issue with one. Not one of our staff saw any issue with you being banned on the grounds of trolling.


Wow, all 60 of them saw my post in the 15 minutes it took you to take action? They MUST be good.

When you say 60 staff members, I know you mean you and 59 volunteers, only a distinct few of which regularly take action, and only an idiot would think that all, if many at all, of them see any particular post.

Please less BS.

Quote:
You're the one seeking to make this personal, not myself. I have already stated that if your intentions were not to troll, then I am more than happy to spend time on reviewing the decision.


I think "/shrug" spells out my opinion on that account quite nicely.

Quote:
...You know very well that was not the reason...


No, I don't.

Anyway, enough about that stupid account. Let's leave it be. Howabout we get onto pressing issues, like you wanting the personal details of under 16's...

Quote:
As to the "laws" as to each age group, we already consulted the relevant authorities on the matter. Such matters are simply of no interest to those authorities in the same way that the thousands of other such initiatives in this country are not.


So the law involving holding personal details on people under specific ages means NOTHING, in ANY country?!

Man, I could go on a data BINGE if I had known that after they passed the laws saying the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Quote:
Quote:
Oh you so did on purpose, you knew full-well that suggesting that you had "supported" "and helped promote" conventions, without stating exactly what you did, artificially inflated it. We're not stupid, and we know you're not stupid enough to miss this glaring issue.

That's quite funny, and you clearly give me more credit than I am due, since that was not my underlying motive whatsoever.


No comment.



Last edited by Oz (13 May 2009 - 21:05)
13 May 2009 - 21:0514346
Quote:
Wow, all 60 of them saw my post in the 15 minutes it took you to take action? They MUST be good.

When you say 60 staff members, I know you mean you and 59 volunteers, only a distinct few of which regularly take action, and only an idiot would think that all, if many at all, of them see any particular post.

Admins are allowed to ban trolls without initial consultation, but then have to refer all evidence to a topic which all staff can view. They can then point out if the decision was incorrect, or the punishment disproportionate and a ban may be overturned on a vote.

Also, we're all volunteers on Animeleague. So that would be sixty volunteers.

We have one of the fairest and thorough systems of banning online - we have been doing this for almost eight years after all.

Quote:
So the law involving holding personal details on people under specific ages means NOTHING, in ANY country?!

Man, I could go on a data BINGE if I had known that after they passed the laws saying the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Okay, now I'm genuinely confused as to what you're blithering on about. Exactly what personal details?

Quote:
Quote:
That's quite funny, and you clearly give me more credit than I am due, since that was not my underlying motive whatsoever.


You're right, I gave you more credit than you're due there. You ARE that stupid.

Oddly enough I'm not too concerned about your opinion of me. Considering the number of times you have been mistaken, or jumped to incorrect conclusions in this topic alone, I'd say this would be a case of "pot meet kettle".


Mods, I would appreciate it if this topic could be removed. The intention of this topic was to promote something that could be very beneficial to the scene, not to have people trolling it. Thanks.



Last edited by FreeSaiyan (13 May 2009 - 21:08)
13 May 2009 - 21:0914348
Do you actually know what trolling is?

Posting genuine concerns and genuine opinions, even if done in an unsubtle way, is not trolling. A healthy online community can cope with dissenting opinions without banning outright. (oh, and when all the staff are there on your say-so, it's unlikely they will disagree with you openly on the subject of "should people who disagree with me openly be banned?" )

There were other posts vanishing from that thread. I personally think team dimension is not a very good idea and probably a waste of time for the people taking part, and that even if they did "graduate", Dimensional manga produces extremely poor quality work and that a talented artist would lose sales by being connected with them. If I posted that, it would be deleted. Why? I genuinely believe that and I think I can back it up. It is not trolling to say you think someone's idea is bad. It is not drama stirring, it is an attempt to instigate genuine discussion without fear of being shut down.

When my friend made a blog post along the same lines regarding the Manga Alliance, she asked to delete a post FROM HER PERSONAL BLOG.

Oh and Mike? When a preview of Pwanda appeared in Neo, it was sufficient to generate a forum thread where the major opinion was that Neo should stop printing manga previews FULL STOP because of how bad it was. It is a terrible, terrible logo for any organisation that purports to be trying to draw people together

"We have one of the fairest and thorough systems of banning online - we have been doing this for almost eight years after all. " it's certainly fair. EVERYONE who has a dissenting opinion or criticism is banned, not just some of them.



Last edited by Fatkraken (13 May 2009 - 21:14)
13 May 2009 - 21:1314349
Quote:
Mods, I would appreciate it if this topic could be removed.


Best post yet, would read again! A+++


13 May 2009 - 21:1514350
On a new tack, I would just like to point out that Auchinawa are in no way affiliated with or had previously even heard of MA or AL, despite previous claims by MA/AL.

(Lets call them MAAL...bit of a joke for Latin boffins there).

Just clarifying, carry on.


13 May 2009 - 21:1814351
Quote:
We have one of the fairest and thorough systems of banning online


[Citation Needed]

Quote:
Quote:
So the law involving holding personal details on people under specific ages means NOTHING, in ANY country?!

Man, I could go on a data BINGE if I had known that after they passed the laws saying the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Okay, now I'm genuinely confused as to what you're blithering on about. Exactly what personal details?


As just ONE (1) example (of many, from a whole swathe of countries), I direct you to COPPA.
http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm

Quote:
Considering the number of times you have been mistaken, or jumped to incorrect conclusions in this topic alone, I'd say this would be a case of "pot meet kettle".


[Citation needed]

Quote:

Mods, I would appreciate it if this topic could be removed. The intention of this topic was to promote something that could be very beneficial to the scene, not to have people trolling it. Thanks.


Oh F'ing QQ more! You came here, to a hub of the UK cosplay community, posted your BS, and got this response. Deal with it. Don't cry to the proverbial teacher. Hopefully this thread will serve as a WARNING if nothing else.

You're not exactly welcome, as far as I can tell.



Maybe you should rethink what people think about you and what you could instead do to help the community. (Like, go away for a year and rethink your plans)

Edit: Well, if you (erronously) think I joined your forum to post troll, then you just came here to post spam.
I know what's better for a forum community, and it's not the advertising.



Last edited by Oz (13 May 2009 - 21:22)
13 May 2009 - 21:2214352
Wow this is getting out of hand. While I have to admit I'm not a fan Dimensional Manga (a lot of their character designs are generic or just plain rip offs) this isn't really point here.

This has met with a less than favourable response. I'm not too sure how well this will go and will take a look. Anyway, it seems the biggest problem is with Anime League, it's actions and it's reputation. FreeSayain, your response hasn't been too great either. I think a lot of the concerns here are valid.

Quote Mocara:
On a new tack, I would just like to point out that Auchinawa are in no way affiliated with or had previously even heard of MA or AL, despite previous claims by MA/AL.

(Lets call them MAAL...bit of a joke for Latin boffins there).

Just clarifying, carry on.


C'est MAAL... en Francais heh heh


__________________

Last edited by Ice-climber (13 May 2009 - 21:23)
13 May 2009 - 21:2414353
Quote Oz:
Quote Mr Towers:

Mods, I would appreciate it if this topic could be removed. The intention of this topic was to promote something that could be very beneficial to the scene, not to have people trolling it. Thanks.


Oh F'ing QQ more! You came here, to a hub of the UK cosplay community, posted your BS, and got this response. Deal with it. Don't cry to the proverbial teacher. Hopefully this thread will serve as a WARNING if nothing else.


Stop trolling him Oz, he's actually being very responsive to the critisism!

Quote Tower:
I am actually very responsive to criticism


We complain, he leaves!


FreeSaiyan - You never replied to any of me emails when I asked where you got mine from to add to your mailing list


13 May 2009 - 21:2614354
Quote Fatkraken:
Do you actually know what trolling is?

Deliberately seeking to undermine or damage a community. Given your only three posts on this forum have been to attack, I suspect your motives. And yes, I will freely admit I joined here solely to promote this event, so don't try and throw that back at me.

Quote:
Posting genuine concerns and genuine opinions, even if done in an unsubtle way, is not trolling.

The intention behind it is the key. "Smarter" trolls often mask their trolling behind such excuses as these.

Quote:
A healthy online community can cope with dissenting opinions without banning outright. (oh, and when all the staff are there on your say-so, it's unlikely they will disagree with you openly on the subject of "should people who disagree with me openly be banned?"

I'm happy for people to openly disagree with me. We would not have a forum to invite everyone to discuss the running of Animeleague if it was some kind of dictatorship. However, joining simply to try and undermine a project that the community is working on - trolling.

Quote:
There were other posts vanishing from that thread. I personally think team dimension is not a very good idea and probably a waste of time for the people taking part, and that even if they did "graduate", Dimensional manga produces extremely poor quality work and that a talented artist would lose sales by being connected with them.

That's your opinion. Everyone is entitled to them, even if they are very misguided.

Quote:
When my friend made a blog post along the same lines regarding the Manga Alliance, she asked to delete a post FROM HER PERSONAL BLOG.

My God, someone asked her to delete a post? You mean, someone used their own freedom of speech to request that? How awful!

Seriously though, what exactly is wrong with such a request? She had a right to either listen to it, or refute it.

Quote:
Oh and Mike? When a preview of Pwanda appeared in Neo, it was sufficient to generate a forum thread where the major opinion was that Neo should stop printing manga previews FULL STOP because of how bad it was. It is a terrible, terrible logo for any organisation that purports to be trying to draw people together

I enjoyed Pwanda, as have many of my friends. Even Neo's Editor is a fan of Pwanda from what I hear. You know very well that online topics such as that tend to attract those with negative opinions and want a good bitch over those with genuinely positive views on it. Also, given the nature of that particular topic, I wouldn't have posted in there supporting Pwanda myself - not worth my time on the argument it would have entailed.


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